[Grammar] Have grammar guidelines changed dramatically over the last three decades?

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CatFive

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Hello,

I find reading a news article to be an increasingly painful task. It used to be rather difficult to find any mispellings or poor grammar within written materials. Excellent writing skills in addition to an interesting perspective were required im most publishing fields.

Now I read articles on the internet. I honestly feel ashamed, and quite disheartened, about the complete lack of concern or awareness shown for the reader.

I feel as though I am a direct witness to the decline of civilization, as if I am living the movie Idiocracy.


The most common issues I see are:

1. Run-on sentences (whether caused by too many prepositional phrases, comma splices, and/or excessive use of conjunctions.)

2. Sentences beginning with extraneous conjunctions (And and But make me wince the most.)

3. Ending sentences with a prepositional phrase. I know this isn't a "rule" however, I propose application of it be reserved only for the most advanced users of the English Language.

4. Mixing present and past tense within the same paragraph; even worse, within the same sentence.


Is it just me, or are we as a species shifting from written text to pictures and videos? Does this make anyone else feel like time and space no longer expands; but rather, has actually begun to constrict? Is this where the backslide starts and human devolution begins? :shock: I feel we have gone through the cusp. We now live in a world where fake breasts and expressionless faces are valued much higher than something so antiquated as intelligence.

I found a hair salon advertisement to be a poignant sign of the times. It read:

On Memorial Day, Remember Your Hair.

Have I just outgrown modern times, and my outrage is akin to calling Elvis' hip swivel 'of the devil'?


Your thoughts and ideas are much appreciated!
 

SoothingDave

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Beginning in the 1960s journalism became less about being a professional writer and more about advancing political causes.
 

Rover_KE

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Welcome to the forum, CatFive, and thanks for that thought-provoking topic. You're welcome to join those of us here who strive to enlighten those in linguistic darkness.

The rise of texting, blogging and tweeting has contributed to the general degradation of the language, as using standard English costs the participants time and money.

Email started the decline when everybody thought it necessary to write their online address with their names in lower case letters.

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Political correctness may be to blame.
 

Allen165

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NOT A TEACHER.

I think you're overreacting. Thanks to the Internet, more people are able to make their opinions available to the public, so it would seem quite logical for the quality of writing to decline (though I'm not sure that it has). Besides, most people have more important things to worry about than grammar, and let's not forget that mastering the English language is a task requiring an inordinate amount of time and effort. To me, a writer's message always comes first; the grammar and punctuation are secondary.

Don't forget that articles published on the Internet are often produced under time pressure, so it's no surprise that mistakes are made.

You mention comma splices as a problem, yet one of your sentences contains a comma splice: "I know this isn't a "rule" however, I propose application of it be reserved only for the most advanced users of the English Language."
 

CatFive

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Thank you Rover! I wouldn't quite consider myself in a position to enlighten anyone =). However, I would love to help preserve this dying art form. I sorely miss the days when grammatically correct, clear communications resulted from a deep sense of pride. Maybe that is the ultimate bottom line: What makes the average American feel proud?

My love for the English Language sparked as a small child. I spoke horrible, inner city English. I was intrigued the first time someone responded to me with "that is a double negative. You are saying you have money" following my announcement of "I don't got no money." By the time sentence diagrams came around, I was hooked. I knew mastering the language was my ticket out of squalor. I didn’t need an actual education; I just had to sound educated.

I studied English. I endlessly practiced words with O’s in them and/or ending in R. It is not cawfee, it’s coffee. It is not a cah, it is a car. I practiced my body language and posture. I turned an 8th grade diploma into a 6-figure salary. People with Master’s degrees reported to me. Not because I too was well educated; but rather, I was viewed as well educated.

I’m so happy to find a site where others share my interest! Nice to *meet* you and take care!

Welcome to the forum, CatFive, and thanks for that thought-provoking topic. You're welcome to join those of us here who strive to enlighten those in linguistic darkness.

The rise of texting, blogging and tweeting has contributed to the general degradation of the language, as using standard English costs the participants time and money.

Email started the decline when everybody thought it necessary to write their online address with their names in lower case letters.

Rover
 

CatFive

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Hi Alien165,

I am not sure if I have inadvertently offended you or if you are just having a bad day. In either case, I am sorry you feel that way.

My observation is not in regards to opinions. It is specific to articles published by well-established news outlets. I scratch my head and wonder if Editors have become obsolete. I suppose the fundamentals of journalism died with Tim Russert. Who knows what is opinion or unbiased reporting anymore, regardless of whether it is on T.V., in a newspaper or online.

I agree with your point that most people have plenty to worry about; however, I would not deem anyone's worries more or less important. Importance is subjective to each person. I would debate your point that a writer's message is secondary to grammar and punctuation. Anyone with a message does not a writer make. (yeah I know. I like it anyway. File it under poetic license.)

It is a craft to be perfected and delivered with grammar and style. To say grammar and punctuation is secondary to a Writer’s message is akin to saying, "A Singer's message always comes first; singing on key and in time are secondary." Or "An Artist's message always comes first; composition and perspective are secondary." Grammar and punctuation are the technical fundamentals of being a Writer. Without mastering these requirements of the craft, it just another person with a message.

Perhaps it is just me, but I cannot even get to the message if I have to get beyond a screeching Yoko Ono, or a "Writer" who signs their name on an article that has three sentences spanning nine paragraphs.

Thank you for highlighting my typo! I intended to include a comma preceding "however." Good thing I do not make a living as a Writer! I am simply a User on usingenglish.com hoping to fine-tune my skills and find like-minded people. I hope that I could possibly even help those learning English as their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th language.

Warm Regards,
Cat



NOT A TEACHER.

I think you're overreacting. Thanks to the Internet, more people are able to make their opinions available to the public, so it would seem quite logical for the quality of writing to decline (though I'm not sure that it has). Besides, most people have more important things to worry about than grammar, and let's not forget that mastering the English language is a task requiring an inordinate amount of time and effort. To me, a writer's message always comes first; the grammar and punctuation are secondary.

Don't forget that articles published on the Internet are often produced under time pressure, so it's no surprise that mistakes are made.

You mention comma splices as a problem, yet one of your sentences contains a comma splice: "I know this isn't a "rule" however, I propose application of it be reserved only for the most advanced users of the English Language."
 

Allen165

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Hi Alien165,

I am not sure if I have inadvertently offended you or if you are just having a bad day. In either case, I am sorry you feel that way.

My observation is not in regards to opinions. It is specific to articles published by well-established news outlets. I scratch my head and wonder if Editors have become obsolete. I suppose the fundamentals of journalism died with Tim Russert. Who knows what is opinion or unbiased reporting anymore, regardless of whether it is on T.V., in a newspaper or online.

I agree with your point that most people have plenty to worry about; however, I would not deem anyone's worries more or less important. Importance is subjective to each person. I would debate your point that a writer's message is secondary to grammar and punctuation. Anyone with a message does not a writer make. (yeah I know. I like it anyway. File it under poetic license.)

It is a craft to be perfected and delivered with grammar and style. To say grammar and punctuation is secondary to a Writer’s message is akin to saying, "A Singer's message always comes first; singing on key and in time are secondary." Or "An Artist's message always comes first; composition and perspective are secondary." Grammar and punctuation are the technical fundamentals of being a Writer. Without mastering these requirements of the craft, it just another person with a message.

Perhaps it is just me, but I cannot even get to the message if I have to get beyond a screeching Yoko Ono, or a "Writer" who signs their name on an article that has three sentences spanning nine paragraphs.

Thank you for highlighting my typo! I intended to include a comma preceding "however." Good thing I do not make a living as a Writer! I am simply a User on usingenglish.com hoping to fine-tune my skills and find like-minded people. I hope that I could possibly even help those learning English as their 2nd, 3rd, or 4th language.

Warm Regards,
Cat

You did not catch me on a bad day or offend me. And no need for you to feel sorry.

Importance is, to a certain extent, subjective, but I don't think grammatical correctness ranks highly in most people's lives. If it did, you probably wouldn't have started this thread. And I doubt most people would associate poor grammar with a civilization decline.

Personally, I find it hard to believe that someone would get upset because the quality of writing in the media appears to be worsening. But that's me. My priorities are different.

This is what I meant when I mentioned the comma splice: I know this isn't a "rule," however; I propose application of it be reserved only for the most advanced users of the English Language.

By the way, there's nothing wrong with starting a sentence with "and" or "but." See Are we misguided? | The Grammarphobia Blog.
 

Tdol

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It is specific to articles published by well-established news outlets. I scratch my head and wonder if Editors have become obsolete.

I am afraid that they are probably one of the casualties of the demands made by rolling media. However, online magazines and periodicals are an area where there's less pressure and I think that many of these are less slipshod. Rolling news pumps things out fast, often with grammatical and factual inaccuracies, but if we want instant access, that is probably the price we have to pay, but that doesn't mean that this is the case in all areas of the media.
 

5jj

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:smilecol:
Your thoughts and ideas are much appreciated!
wotsup doc!??! u r 1 of them thats like a fossil man. u wanna like live dude!!!!!!!!! i say peeps like u shld never of left the drak ages lol :puppydog:
 

CatFive

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Maybe I am hyper-sensitive. To me, the devolution of language is directly linked to the decline of civilization. The relationship is parallel. I even dare to say civilization would not exist without our languages. We would have no books, no understanding of our past, and no information on prior achievements. Without Newton, Einstein would not have had his starting point to prove space and time is curved. Without Newton and Einstein, Hubble could not have proved the universe is expanding. We would not have the information to contemplate today.

As an armchair expert of nothing, I benefit from all of the knowledge collected and recorded before me. Galileo noticed the heavens move. I get to wonder what happens next. Will the universe expand to infinity? Will it constrict and collapse into itself? How can physicists claim to know what happened moments after the big bang, when the infant universe defies our laws of physics? How do they know, in essence, hydrogen turned into people?

We build our very intelligence, our planetary domination, on language. Of course, we are not the only species that communicates with one another. However, we are the only species that rules the world.

That is what language means to me. When we allow ourselves to abandon the very foundation of our success, we allow ourselves to slowly revert to what we once were: a pack of wild apes grunting at each other and picking gnats out of our matted body hair.
 

5jj

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Maybe I am hyper-sensitive.[...] When we allow ourselves to abandon the very foundation of our success, we allow ourselves to slowly revert to what we once were: a pack of wild apes grunting at each other and picking gnats out of our matted body hair.
I think you may be exaggerating things a little.

Don't forget that, until very recently, hoi polloi communicated orally in their local pubs. Until very recently, most of them couldn't even write their own names.

The tremendous increase in the number of (almost) literate people in the world in the last century or two, and the existence of the internet, which allows them to publish, and us to read, their troglodyte writing, combine to make us feel itchy.

Refined people such as you and I can continue to wonder whether I put too many commas (or not enough) in my last sentence, whether 'combines' in that sentence would be acceptable, or whether we can tolerate 'me' in place of the italicised I in the first line of this sentence - or whether this sentence is too long and/or whether the '-' is an acceptable punctuation mark.
 

Tdol

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Such a decline would only be possible if everybody followed suit, which I don't think is the case. There's plenty of sloppy writing out there, but it's by no means universal.
 

CatFive

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I think you may be exaggerating things a little.
"...a pack of wild apes grunting at each other and picking gnats out of our matted body hair."

Yes but, if I didn't exaggerate a little, I wouldn't be able to use my colorful descriptions!
 

CatFive

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I think you may be exaggerating things a little.

Don't forget that, until very recently, hoi polloi communicated orally in their local pubs. Until very recently, most of them couldn't even write their own names..

Yes of course.

However, the printing press and literacy bridged the gap between the dark ages and the age of enlightenment.

Which further supports my position that proper use of language is directly linked to the decline (or incline, as the case may be) of civilization. :)
 

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Does language create ideas or do ideas create language? I don't know so I thought I'd ask.

I agree with you on the journalism bit. The writing is crap but what's even worse is the complete lack of critical thinking, objectivity, research, verification of facts, thinking, mildly intelligent news anchors...

If I haven't written properly feel free to properfy it! ;-)


Not a teacher.
 

CatFive

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Does language create ideas or do ideas create language? I don't know so I thought I'd ask.

I agree with you on the journalism bit. The writing is crap but what's even worse is the complete lack of critical thinking, objectivity, research, verification of facts, thinking, mildly intelligent news anchors...

If I haven't written properly feel free to properfy it! ;-)


Not a teacher.

Thank you San Mar! In a field where accountability is solely based on "reputation and creditability," I am completely baffled as to how most news outlets could claim either.
 

CatFive

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UPDATE: Have grammar guidelines changed dramatically over the last three decades?

I believe I have uncovered the true source of mediocre journalism. It is the information source for almost all new outlets. I won't mention any names, but it starts with Associated and ends with Press.


Jim Cole/AP wrote this photo caption:
Trinity Baptist Church in Concord, N.H., where one church-member is accused of raping a teenage girl, who was then allegedly was forced to apologize to the congregation in 1997.


I cannot be the only one that finds such sloppy work entirely aggravating.
 

5jj

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Re: UPDATE: Have grammar guidelines changed dramatically over the last three decades?

I cannot be the only one that finds such sloppy work entirely aggravating.
Aggrevating what? ;-)
 
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