Today Peter has bought a bicycle by which he went to a pool.

[Matthew Wai]

"Today Peter has bought a bicycle by which he went to a pool."

Is it correct to use the present perfect "has bought" although it happened before "went to a pool"?

 

[Raymott]

No, that sounds strange, for a few reasons - one of which you've mentioned.
"Today Peter bought a bicycle, which he rode to the pool."
"Today Peter bought a bicycle, which he has ridden to the pool."
The use of 'today' actually counts as a specific time in the past in this context, because, as you say, it occurred before something else you are relating in the past tense. It means "earlier today" - past.
"Peter has a bought a bicycle, which he has ridden to the pool." OK, since they are both in present perfect. One imagines a person at the pool saying this, and there are conceptualised as one event for the purpose of tenses.

 

[Matthew Wai]

"Today, the official welcoming ceremony of President Serzh Sargsyan who has arrived in Georgia on an official visit took place at the presidential palace."── quoted from https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/threads/209539-have-arrived-or-had-arrived

The president "has arrived" before the ceremony "took place", why did Rover_KE say the present perfect is correct?
Peter "has bought" a bicycle before he "went to" a pool, the construction should be the same.

 

[Barb_D]

The "today" in that one ties to the official welcoming ceremony that "took place."


Today I picked up my brother, who has arrived for a two-week visit, at the airport.

(I wouldn't say the one with the president is exactly how I'd write it.)

Today Peter rode his bicycle, which he has only recently purchased, to the pool. -- Do you see how this different from your original?

 

[Tdol]

I would worry more about by which and a pool here.

 

[Raymott]

The president "has arrived" before the ceremony "took place", why did Rover_KE say the present perfect is correct?

Because there are usually no rules that must be followed. Rover read it, and did not find it unusual. I found it strange, and Barb "wouldn't say the one with the president is exactly how I'd write it," from which I gather she doesn't like it much either.
You know by now that teachers will disagree on some points. In those cases, we will normally say, "I would say ...", "It sounds odd", etc. When teachers hedge like this, it means the that answer isn't set in stone. On the other hand, there are cases where something is obviously incorrect/correct, and this is the time you should be questioning us about differences of opinion.
There are many cases where you can choose the version you find the most convincing.

 

[emsr2d2]

He has bought a bike, on which he rode to the pool.

 

[Matthew Wai]

Last month I crashed my computer which I have bought in the last year.

Is it OK to use the present perfect here?

 

[bhaisahab]

No, that's not natural.

 

[Matthew Wai]

Yesterday I crashed my computer which I have bought recently.

Is it natural?

 

[Barb_D]

That's closer, but this may be where the American difference come out. Clearly "recently" is not a specific point in the past, but it's clearly "before yesterday" which IS a specific point in time, so I'd go for simple past there.

 

[bhaisahab]

No.

 

[emsr2d2]

It's very generous of you to take the blame for your computer crashing! I would say "Yesterday, my computer crashed. I only bought it recently!"

 

[charliedeut]

It's very generous of you to take the blame for your computer crashing!

That would rally depend on what Matthew Wai meant:

 

[Matthew Wai]

Please tell me whether the following conclusion is correct.


Normally it is unacceptable to use the present perfect in connection with something which happened before something else described in the simple past, but it may be acceptable to some if the latter happened today, such is an exception.

 

[Raymott]

Please tell me whether the following conclusion is correct.
Normally it is unacceptable to use the present perfect in connection with something which happened before something else described in the simple past, but it may be acceptable to some if the latter happened today, such is [as?] an exception.

That statement is so qualified that I think it's almost impossible to disagree with. I agree with the first clause.
You have our opinions. Is that your conclusion? If so, you're unlikely to go too far wrong with it.

 

[Matthew Wai]

The acceptable sentences in Post#3 and #4 mentioned "today" and I guessed 'he rode' also happened 'today' in emsr2d2's example in Post#7, but my sentences referring to 'yesterday' and 'last month' were unacceptable, so I conclude that 'today' is an exception.

 

[Raymott]

The acceptable sentences in Post#3 and #4 mentioned "today" and I guessed 'he rode' also happened 'today' in emsr2d2's example in Post#7, but my sentences referring to 'yesterday' and 'last month' were unacceptable, so I conclude that 'today' is an exception.Your original sentence was about today.

Ah, so you probably missed my post #2 where I agreed with you, saying, "No, that sounds strange, for a few reasons - one of which you've mentioned." But as I said earlier today, where opinions differ, you have to choose the one you find the most convincing, even if you take no account of whether any argumentation is given. ;-)

 

[Matthew Wai]

Ah, so you probably missed my post #2

So far I have never missed any of your answers to my questions on this forum.

Your original sentence was about today.

'Today' referred to the present perfect in my sentence but to the simple past in Barb_D's sentences.

you take no account of whether any argumentation is given.

I did take account of your argumentation, so I conclude that 'today' is an exception acceptable to some but not all, and I will avoid this arguably acceptable usage.

 

[Tdol]

Today can fit into both unfinished and finished time, so it can behave differently from the phrases you used in this thread.