a before admiration

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notletrest

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I came up with as follows
1.t.v.+ (adjective) +admiration :
have, express, feel admiration,for,/of...win wide-spread admiration, express great-admiration, excite,awsken universal admiration
2.,t.v.+a+adjective+admiration:
cherish a profoud admiration,have a deep /great admiration
Please explain the phenomenon. By the way can we say like this: have an admiration for ,have deep admiration for...,If they are possible,give some examples , please in detail!Thank you very much!
 

Frank Antonson

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I'm sorry, but I do not understand what you are asking/saying.
 

birdeen's call

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I think the question is "when do we use "a/an" with the word "admiration?"

Did I understand you correctly Notletrest?
 

Frank Antonson

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Okay, that's easy.

It is called (darn it, I can't think of it at the moment but French uses it all the time) ELISION (the it is). Since "admiration" starts with a vowel, the "n" of an "an" is sounded and written. In French the consonant before such a word is written but not sounded (or maybe sounded but not written -- I can't remember at the moment.) Basically, in French if there is any way to make sounds run together smoothly, it is done. Consonant to vowel is smooth. Vowel to vowel is not smooth.
 

Frank Antonson

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I should go on to say that this has nothing to do with meaning but rather with sound. In English we say "an apple" but we say "a pear".
 

birdeen's call

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Notletrest seems to have lost his interest in this thread, but I'll continue to ask.

You've misunderstood me. (It's only my fault though... :oops:) I didn't mean the difference between "a" and "an". I rather meant the difference between "a/an" and no article. And that's what I believe the original poster was talking about. He/she says that it's sometimes "an admiration" and sometimes simply "admiration". Of course I may have misunderstood that myself, but I would still like to know how to deal with it. :)
 

Frank Antonson

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Well, I'm puzzled. Maybe we should just let the thread die. I could tell you, though, that "an admiration" versus "admiration" is the difference between an individual versus a collective noun. "A breath" versus "air". The first you can itemize i.e. count. The second you cannot.
 

notletrest

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Well, I'm puzzled. Maybe we should just let the thread die. I could tell you, though, that "an admiration" versus "admiration" is the difference between an individual versus a collective noun. "A breath" versus "air". The first you can itemize i.e. count. The second you cannot.
I am sorry I have taken you so much time to guess my question.In order to save time, I put my question in a brief way,I didn't think you might misunderstand me.Now let me speak again.
I came up with as follows in dictionaries:
1.t.ranstive verbs .+ (adjective) +admiration :

have,/express/ feel admiration,for,/of...win wide-spread admiration, express great-admiration, excite,/awaken universal admiration
That is to say before admiration without an indefinite article,even if there is an adjective before it.The examples are as above.
2.,travstive verb.+a+adjective+admiration:
cherish a profoud admiration, have a deep /great admiration
That is to say before admiration there must be with an indefinite article, if there is an adjective before it.The examples are as above.In fact some examples in 1. are in contradiction to those in 2. i.e. express great admiration, have a great admiration...,have admiration for,

Please explain the phenomenon,why should it be so.What is the rule for it and for orther nouns? By the way can we say like this: have an admiration for ,have deep admiration for...,If they are possible,give some examples , please in detail! Now may I put it clearly? Thank you very much!
 

Frank Antonson

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Yes you can say those last two.

I am still confused, however, by the definitions that you are offering.

"Admire" is a transitive verb. "Admirable" is an adjective "Admiring" can also function as an adjective or a noun. "Admirably" is an adverb. "Admiration" is a noun (which can be individual or mass). Without looking up the etymology, I can safely assume that the word comes from the Latin prefix "ad"--to or toward-- and the Latin verb "mirare" -- to look.
 

Tdol

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If I understand you, these are possible structures, so a/an + adj + admiration does not mean that if there's an adjective, we must use the indefinite article. It's not a rule, just a possibility- we can have more than one pattern.
 

notletrest

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If I understand you, these are possible structures, so a/an + adj + admiration does not mean that if there's an adjective, we must use the indefinite article. It's not a rule, just a possibility- we can have more than one pattern.
Thanks for your understanding, but you still don't give me a key to turn in the lock.I am sorry you avoid answering my questions.My real aim is to discuss in verbial phrases including an uncount noun the use of the indefinite article ,it refers to an adjective.The word admiration is just an example I want to discuss.I hope you would give me some help in this respect.
 

TheParser

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I came up with as follows
1.t.v.+ (adjective) +admiration :
have, express, feel admiration,for,/of...win wide-spread admiration, express great-admiration, excite,awsken universal admiration
2.,t.v.+a+adjective+admiration:
cherish a profoud admiration,have a deep /great admiration
Please explain the phenomenon. By the way can we say like this: have an admiration for ,have deep admiration for...,If they are possible,give some examples , please in detail!Thank you very much!


********** NOT A TEACHER **********

Hello, Notletrest.

(1) I have been following your thread with great interest because I,

too, want an answer.

(2) IF (IF!!!) I understand you correctly, you (and I) want to know the

difference between:

I feel great admiration for your country.

I feel a great admiration for your country.

(3) Sadly, I have not been able to find an answer that satisfies me,

but I have found a few ideas to share with you:

(a) admiration is a mass noun that does not take the plural.

(b) One expert says that non-count nouns take an indefinite

article when modified or qualified:

(i) (His example) a deep happiness. (I guess that deep modifies the mass

noun happiness.)

(ii) (His example) an admiration for those fellow students. ( I guess that

for those fellow students qualifies admiration.)

(4) One teacher told me that there is no difference between "I feel great

admiration for" and "I feel a great admiration for." He said it is a matter of

the speaker's choice.

(5) I personally feel (until I get more information) (of course, I could be

100% wrong) that there is a difference.

(a) I detect that there is an emphasis or specificity with a/an.

(i) I feel a great admiration for your countrymay (may!!!) mean

something like:

As far as your country is concerned, I feel a great admiration/ an

admiration that knows no limits/that I feel for no other country/that

is hard to explain, etc.



I say this because of point no.6.


(6) In researching this topic, I discovered this expert's words:

In German, as in English, it is normal (my emphasis) to use any

abstract noun with the indefinite article when it is qualified by

an adjective or an adjectival clause. We do not speak of a despair, but

we do say He was filled with a despair that grew from day to day.

Thank you

P. S. Please let us know if you find more information.
 

notletrest

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********** NOT A TEACHER **********

Hello, Notletrest.

(1) I have been following your thread with great interest because I,

too, want an answer.

(2) IF (IF!!!) I understand you correctly, you (and I) want to know the

difference between:

I feel great admiration for your country.

I feel a great admiration for your country.

(3) Sadly, I have not been able to find an answer that satisfies me,

but I have found a few ideas to share with you:

(a) admiration is a mass noun that does not take the plural.

(b) One expert says that non-count nouns take an indefinite

article when modified or qualified:

(i) (His example) a deep happiness. (I guess that deep modifies the mass

noun happiness.)

(ii) (His example) an admiration for those fellow students. ( I guess that

for those fellow students qualifies admiration.)

(4) One teacher told me that there is no difference between "I feel great

admiration for" and "I feel a great admiration for." He said it is a matter of

the speaker's choice.

(5) I personally feel (until I get more information) (of course, I could be

100% wrong) that there is a difference.

(a) I detect that there is an emphasis or specificity with a/an.

(i) I feel a great admiration for your countrymay (may!!!) mean

something like:

As far as your country is concerned, I feel a great admiration/ an

admiration that knows no limits/that I feel for no other country/that

is hard to explain, etc.



I say this because of point no.6.


(6) In researching this topic, I discovered this expert's words:

In German, as in English, it is normal (my emphasis) to use any

abstract noun with the indefinite article when it is qualified by

an adjective or an adjectival clause. We do not speak of a despair, but

we do say He was filled with a despair that grew from day to day.

Thank you

P. S. Please let us know if you find more information.
=========================
Thanks for your concerns.In your thread there is something important as follows:
"One expert says that non-count nouns take an indefinite

article when modified or qualified
One teacher told me that there is no difference between "I feel great

admiration for" and "I feel a great admiration for." He said it is a matter of

the speaker's choice.
I discovered this expert's words:

In German, as in English, it is normal (my emphasis) to use any

abstract noun with the indefinite article when it is qualified by

an adjective or an adjectival clause."
I hope we should discuss questions seriously.Don't use a teacher or an expert says and so on.Our examples should be from publising.My examples are all from publising or dictionaries.Some important conclusions must be quoted from books.I think you are serious enough. I wil give you an example to turn down your conclusion.I have never come up with "to take active part in activities" so far.Have you?So we should go deeper.In my study I met with thousands upon thousands of such uncount nouns,admiration is only an instance.In my eyes it seems there is no rule in this respect.I am so dispaired that I think this is a matter of vocabulary ,not a matter of grammar.
 
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