Question tag — most of us went there...

man of manners · Jul 26, 2016

hi
This is a new thread in which we will discuss some problematic sentences that need suitable question tags.
The sentence is:

Most of us went there,.........?

thanks in advance!

GoesStation · Jul 26, 2016

Most of us went there, didn't we?

This one is simple and natural.

emsr2d2 · Jul 26, 2016

Man of manners, in your future posts on the same subject, please tell us what you think the natural question tag (if any) might be.

man of manners · Jul 26, 2016

emsr2d2 said:
Man of manners, in your future posts on the same subject, please tell us what you think the natural question tag (if any) might be.

OK and I will do this right now.
"Most of us" makes us think that there are two groups of people; some who went there and some who did not. Accordingly, I think that if the speaker was one of those who did go there , we should use "didn't we" and if the speaker wasn't of those who went there, we should use "didn't they" as he is not part of the group that did go there.
Is this opinion correct?

emsr2d2 · Jul 26, 2016

If he were part of the group that went, he would say "Most of us went, didn't we?"
If he were part of the group that didn't go, he could say "Some of us didn't go, did we?"

man of manners · Jul 26, 2016

emsr2d2 said:
If he were part of the group that went, he would say "Most of us went, didn't we?"
If he were part of the group that didn't go, he could say "Some of us didn't go, did we?"

I completely agree but do you find my opinion wrong?

Tdol · Jul 26, 2016

Us is inclusive. If the speaker had not been part of the group, it would have been natural to use most of you/them, depending on the context. If the speaker were part of a group , some of which went and some of which didn't, the question would need rewriting. I can't see a way to force this meaning into the existing words.

man of manners · Jul 26, 2016

Tdol said:
Us is inclusive. If the speaker had not been part of the group, it would have been natural to use most of you/them, depending on the context. If the speaker were part of a group , some of which went and some of which didn't, the question would need rewriting. I can't see a way to force this meaning into the existing words.

I partly agree but here is my opinion retold. 'Most of" has already reduced the inclusiveness of "us" so we logically deduce that there are some who went and others who did not. We really don't know from which group the speaker is. That's why we need more context. But as we can see, there is no context here in the sentence, so If the speaker was one of those who went, he would use "we" in the question tag because he was not one of them and If the speaker was not one of those who went, he would use "they" to refer to those who went because he was not one of them.
Do you still find it wrong?

GoesStation · Jul 26, 2016

man of manners said:
OK and I will do this right now.
"Most of us" makes us think that there are two groups of people; some who went there and some who did not. Accordingly, I think that if the speaker was one of those who did go there , we should use "didn't we" and if the speaker wasn't of those who went there, we should use "didn't they" as he is not part of the group that did go there.
Is this opinion correct?

No. If you followed Most of us went there with "didn't they?" then anyone listening would think you'd made a mistake.

man of manners · Jul 26, 2016

GoesStation said:
No. If you followed Most of us went there with "didn't they?" then anyone listening would think you'd made a mistake.

I tend to agree with this, but what seems yo make it hard for me to agree is that a friend of my friend said this opinion and I did agree with him.
To be honest, I think you are right.

GoesStation · Jul 26, 2016

man of manners said:
I tend to agree with this, but what seems yo make it hard for me to agree is that a friend of my friend said this opinion and I did agree with him.
To be honest, I think you are right.

Most of us went there, didn't they? just sounds wrong. The pronoun in the tag has to agree with the one in the preceding statement.

man of manners · Jul 26, 2016

GoesStation said:
Most of us went there, didn't they? just sounds wrong. The pronoun in the tag has to agree with the one in the preceding statement.

I agree but what is your opinion of this one:
Most of them/you went there,........?

emsr2d2 · Jul 26, 2016

They're both perfectly fine as the start of a statement. If you want to put a question tag on them, they would be:

Most of them went there, didn't they?
Most of you went there, didn't you?

I wouldn't expect anyone who was in the original group to use either one though.

man of manners · Jul 26, 2016

emsr2d2 said:
Most of them went there, didn't they?
Most of you went there, didn't you?

I completely agree but I have a final question to ask.

I agree with the first question tag, but as for the second one, I also have another answer.

Can we use "didn't you" only when we address the group that did go and use "didn't they" only when we address the group that did not go.

Note the full questions:
When addressing the group that went there: Most of you went there, didn't you[who are the ones who went] go there?
When addressing the group that didn't go there: Most of you went there, didn't they[the ones who are not part of your group] go there? "Note here that the speaker used the pronoun 'they' in the tag because the people he is talking about are not part of the addressed."
When addressing the two groups together:we would say the same question you mentioned in post #13 because they are all ahead of me when I am saying this so they are all addressed.

Barb_D · Jul 26, 2016

No, there's no difference here than in the "us" situation.

Most of us ..., didn't we?
Most of you ..., didn't you?
Most of them ..., didn't they?

It will be considered completely unnatural and non-native to switch from "you" to "they."

GoesStation · Jul 26, 2016

man of manners said:
I completely agree but I have a final question to ask.

I agree with the first question tag, but as for the second one, I also have another answer.

Can we use "didn't you" only when we address the group that did go and use "didn't they" only when we address the group that did not go.

Note the full questions:
When addressing the group that went there: Most of you went there, didn't you[who are the ones who went] go there?
When addressing the group that didn't go there: Most of you went there, didn't they[the ones who are not part of your group] go there? "Note here that the speaker used the pronoun 'they' in the tag because the people he is talking about are not part of the addressed."
When addressing the two groups together:we would say the same question you mentioned in post #13 because they are all ahead of me when I am saying this so they are all addressed.

Only didn't you is possible after "Most of you went there". As I said before, the pronoun in the tag has to agree with the one in the preceding statement.

man of manners · Jul 26, 2016

Barb_D said:
It will be considered completely unnatural and non-native to switch from "you" to "they."

GoesStation said:
Only didn't you is possible after "Most of you went there". As I said before, the pronoun in the tag has to agree with the one in the preceding statement.

OK, I practically, not theoretically, agree. I mean "from a practical, not theoretical, perspective."

GoesStation · Jul 26, 2016

man of manners said:
OK, I practically, not theoretically, agree. I mean "from a practical, not theoretical, perspective."

Your theory is flawed if it fails to predict actual practice.

man of manners · Jul 27, 2016

GoesStation said:
Your theory is flawed if it fails to predict actual practice.

No, I meant that there are things in English that can be accepted theoretically but not practically [in spoken English] and we all know this.

Piscean said:
Has it not occurred to you that if a number of long-term responders, including native speakers of BrE and AmE and qualified teachers, suggest that you are mistaken, they might be right?

I do trust your opinions but I feel need for asking because It is logically convincing and here is a very good sentence that proves the rightness of my opinion:
How can we tag this sentence "Most of us/you died in an accident"? In my viewpoint, I'd use "didn't they" because I am talking about people who are surly not present while I am saying this so we can't include them as ones of the speakers nor listeners. Remember: if you used "we/you" in the tag, you include the dead as if they were present because "we and you" are inclusive in the tag.
What do you think now?

GoesStation · Jul 27, 2016

The pronoun in the tag has to agree with the one in the preceding statement. The language will not conform to your theory no matter how many times you state it.

Question tag — most of us went there...

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