why "from where" instead of "from which"?

roseriver1012 · Apr 26, 2011

She climbed up to the top of the hill, ____ she could have a good view of the whole town.
C. from which D. from where
The answer is D. I can't understand why I can't use "from which" in this sentence. Why can't I suppose that "which" here refers to " the top of the hill" and it introduces the attributibe clause? On the other hand, what does "where" refer to? Why can it be connected with a preposition "from"(in a common sense, we seldom connect "where" with a prepostion)? Help me please, and thank you very much!

roseriver1012 · Apr 26, 2011

And there is another similar example sentence: We went up to the roof , from where we had a good view of the procession.

It is supposed that "where" here means "on the roof". That is from on the roof we had a good view of... However, can't I say from the roof we had a good view of...? If the answer is "Yes", then does it mean that I can also say: We went up to the roof, from which we had a good view of the procession? This language point always puzzles me. :-?

freezeframe · Apr 26, 2011

Here's a similar thread: https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/99036-where-where.html

roseriver1012 · Apr 26, 2011

freezeframe said:
Here's a similar thread: https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/99036-where-where.html

I studied that thred just now, but it seems the replies hold different views about this question. I still can not get a clear idea. Who can help me again?

freezeframe · Apr 26, 2011

She climbed up to the top of the hill, ____ she could have a good view of the whole town.

From which would work for me here but I wouldn't use a comma. Maybe that's why the book says it's wrong.

5jj · Apr 26, 2011

roseriver1012 said:
She climbed up to the top of the hill, ____ she could have a good view of the whole town.
C. from which D. from where
The answer is D. I can't understand why I can't use "from which" in this sentence.

You can use either, though 'from where' is probably more common.

And there is another similar example sentence: We went up to the roof , from where we had a good view of the procession.

It is supposed that "where" here means "on the roof". That is from on the roof we had a good view of... Yes
However, can't I say from the roof we had a good view of...? If the answer is "Yes", then does it mean that I can also say: We went up to the roof, from which we had a good view of the procession?

Once again, you can use either, though 'from where' is probably more common.

5jj · Apr 26, 2011

freezeframe said:
She climbed up to the top of the hill, ____ she could have a good view of the whole town.

From which would work for me here but I wouldn't use a comma.

I would use a comma, This is more likely to be a non-defining than a defining relative clause, I feel.

roseriver1012 · Apr 26, 2011

freezeframe said:
She climbed up to the top of the hill, ____ she could have a good view of the whole town.

From which would work for me here but I wouldn't use a comma. Maybe that's why the book says it's wrong.

Sorry for my troubling questions. Why wouldn't you use a comma if you use from which? Is there something wrong in treating it as a non-restrictive clause when using from which? Or to a native speaker's eye, it is just a habit, which can not be explained in a reasonable sense?

freezeframe · Apr 26, 2011

fivejedjon said:
I would use a comma, This is more likely to be a non-defining than a defining relative clause, I feel.

Well, I feel... (insert some outrage here)!!

For me it's more natural to use "from where" but if I used "from which" and I set it off with a comma, it would be weird because then which would refer to "top" and I'd want to use "where" instead. If it was referring to the "hill", I wouldn't use a comma as I'd see it as restricting what kind of hill it is.

All of this is subjective but if you want to have an argument, bring it on! :-D

roseriver1012 · Apr 26, 2011

fivejedjon said:
I would use a comma, This is more likely to be a non-defining than a defining relative clause, I feel.

Thanks for your replies! So in fact, using from which doesn't break the grammar rules, but is not commonly used or does not do well in expressing, am I right?

5jj · Apr 26, 2011

freezeframe said:
For me it's more natural to use "from where" but if I used "from which" and I set it off with a comma, it would be weird because then which would refer to "top" and I'd want to use "where" instead.

I agree that without comma the relative clause almost certainly refers to whe phrase 'top of the hill and that 'from where' is more likely. I just feel that 'from which is possible.

If it was referring to the "hill", I wouldn't use a comma as I'd see it as restricting what kind of hill it is.

I agree.

The choice of comma or not is subjective - it depends what meaning you wish to express.

roseriver1012 · Apr 26, 2011

freezeframe said:
Well, I feel... (insert some outrage here)!!

For me it's more natural to use "from where" but if I used "from which" and I set it off with a comma, it would be weird because then which would refer to "top" and I'd want to use "where" instead. If it was referring to the "hill", I wouldn't use a comma as I'd see it as restricting what kind of hill it is.

All of this is subjective but if you want to have an argument, bring it on! :-D

Do you mean that if you use from which, the focus is on telling what hill it is, and if you use from where, the focus is on where she could see the whole town? I seem to get to grasp the point.

freezeframe · Apr 26, 2011

roseriver1012 said:
Do you mean that if you use from which, the focus is on telling what hill it is, and if you use from where, the focus is on where she could see the whole town? I seem to get to grasp the point.

Yes, that's how I read it.

5jj · Apr 26, 2011

roseriver1012 said:
Do you mean that if you use from which, the focus is on telling what hill it is, and if you use from where, the focus is on where she could see the whole town? I seem to get to grasp the point.

My view:

1.She climbed up to the top of the hill, from where she could have a good view of the whole town. focus - 'top'

2. She climbed up to the top of the hill, from which she could have a good view of the whole town. focus - probably 'top', possibly 'hill'

3. She climbed up to the top of the hill from where she could have a good view of the whole town. focus - either. It is not clear.

4. She climbed up to the top of the hill from which she could have a good view of the whole town. focus - 'hill'

Depending on the meaning I wished to convey, I would normally use #1 or #4.

why "from where" instead of "from which"?

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