[Grammar] said John Hanke

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anhnha

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“The idea behind the app was to build something that would help people connect with the real, physical world around them,” said John Hanke, a vice president of product at Google who runs a small lab at the company building location-based and social mobile apps.
In the above sentence, is "said" an adjective
?
Or is "said" an
ellipse of "which was said by John Hanke?
Thanks for help!

 

Raymott

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“The idea behind the app was to build something that would help people connect with the real, physical world around them,” said John Hanke, a vice president of product at Google who runs a small lab at the company building location-based and social mobile apps.
In the above sentence, is "said" an adjective
?
Or is "said" an
ellipse of "which was said by John Hanke?
Thanks for help!

No, it's a verb. It's the main verb of the sentence, "John Hanke said 'X'".
 

anhnha

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Thanks,
No, it's a verb. It's the main verb of the sentence, "John Hanke said 'X'".
Why it is possible to say "said John Hank" mean "John Hanke said 'X'"?
Why we don't use the structure "John Hanke said 'X' in above sentence?

 

Raymott

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Thanks,

Why it is possible to say "said John Hank" mean "John Hanke said 'X'"?
Why we don't use the structure "John Hanke said 'X' in above sentence?

There's no reason. The sentence goes, "'X' said John Hanke." That's normal, so that's how it was written.
 

anhnha

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Sorry for this but I don't see why "'X' said John Hanke." is normal.
Does
"'X' said John Hanke." have full form "'X' is/was said by John Hanke."?
 

Raymott

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Sorry for this but I don't see why "'X' said John Hanke." is normal.
Does
"'X' said John Hanke." have full form "'X' is/was said by John Hanke."?
I'm sorry too, because I really can't understand the problem you're having with this.
Have you ever read a story book in English? X is quoted, as 'X'. It's what John said.

Here's a simple story: It's called Mary and John.
"Hello, Mary, " said John.
"Hello, John," replied Mary.
"Would you like to see a movie, " John asked.
Mary thought about it, and answered, "Sure, why not?"
"Great," said John.
 

anhnha

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Have you ever read a story book in English?
Yes. I have.
"Hello, Mary, " said John.
"Hello, John," replied Mary.
I also saw this structure many times but I always think the full form of it should be:
"Hello, Mary, " is said by John.
"Hello, John," is replied by Mary.
 

bhaisahab

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Yes. I have.

I also saw this structure many times but I always think the full form of it should be:
"Hello, Mary, " is said by John.
"Hello, John," is replied by Mary.

No, it shouldn't.
 

anhnha

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In your story:
Here's a simple story: It's called Mary and John.
"Hello, Mary, " said John.
"Hello, John," replied Mary.
"Would you like to see a movie, " John asked.
Mary thought about it, and answered, "Sure, why not?"
"Great," said John.
Can I use "John said" "Mary replied" "asked John" in the above story, respectively?
Thanks for your patience and help!
 

5jj

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In your story:

Can I use "John said" "Mary replied" "asked John" in the above story, respectively?
Thanks for your patience and help!
Yes, you can," said 5jj.
"Yes, you can," 5jj said.
5jj said, "Yes, you can."
 

TheParser

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***** NOT A TEACHER *****


Hello, Anhnha:

I recently learned something that I am delighted to share with you.

1. "Tom said" and "said Tom" are called dialogue tags.

2. You can write:

Tom/ He/ She said, "I love English."

OR

"I love English," said Tom.

According to the Fiction Writer's Mentor website, "You can use either depending on what sounds right and works for you."

*****

BUT:

"I love English," said she/ he. Because those are pronouns, such writing nowadays is considered "archaic,
pretentious, artificial, old-fashioned."

Source: Tracy Culleton and Leslie Edgerton, two writers giving advice on the Web.


HAVE A NICE DAY!


James
 

anhnha

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Thank you TheParser,
Well, it is a new concept to me. By using the key word "dialogue tags" I can find many things useful about this kind of the structure. After searching now I can understand better about the using of comma, exclamation point or a question mark. But now there are a numbers of things that make me confused.


Example 1:
"The sky is blue," he said.
Is this sentence grammatical? The order of "he said" makes me confused.
Could you parse it?
Why it isn't written as follows:
He said that "The sky is blue.".
Why we need a comma in the following sentence:
He said, "The sky is blue".
Example 2:
"The sky is blue," said he.
Again, is this sentence grammatical?
Flipping of the subject (he) and verb (said) make me more confused.
Could you parse it again?
 

Chicken Sandwich

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***** NOT A TEACHER *****

1) "The sky is blue," he said.

Yes, it's fine. Why shouldn't it be? Parsing isn't going to help. You'll just have to accept that this ("X," he said.) is a normal structure.

2) "The sky is blue," said he.

This structure is less common, see TheParser's post.

"I love English," said she/ he. Because those are pronouns, such writing nowadays is considered "archaic,
pretentious, artificial, old-fashioned."
 
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Barb_D

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Don't use "that" with direct quotes.

He said, "The sky is blue."
He said that the sky is blue. -- Indirect quote.

Please simply accept that:
He said, "The sky is blue."
"The sky is blue," he said.

Peter said, "The sky is blue."
"The sky is blue," said Peter."
"The sky is blue," Peter said.

Are ALL okay.
 
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TheParser

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Why it isn't written as follows:
He said that "The sky is blue.".
Why we need a comma in the following sentence:
He said, "The sky is blue".

"The sky is blue," said he.
Again, is this sentence grammatical?


***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello:


1. First, I commend you on being persistent. You should keep asking questions until you are satisfied. You are a

true scholar.

2. I once found something that helped me to better understand so-called dialogue tags.

3. According to one grammar book, the words "Tom said," or "He said, " or "said Tom," etc. are parenthetical

elements. That is -- as the book says -- they "serve no grammatical function." In other words, they are NOT

part of the sentence. (Although they do have a LOGICAL relation to the sentence.)

4. IF (a big "if"!) I understand that book correctly, there is a BIG difference between:

(a) He said that the sky is blue.
(b) He said, "The sky is blue."

In (a) all the words are parsed. It is a complete sentence. For example, "The children said that they love ice cream."

In (b) the sentence is "The sky is blue." The dialogue tag is NOT part of the sentence. In fact, if you write a novel,

I guess that you do not absolutely need dialogue tags. (Although they do help prevent confusion on the part of the

reader.) In fact, you do not have to use a comma. I have never written a script, but I imagine that you could introduce

the dialogue in many ways:

Tom said, "I like you."
Tom: "I like you."

The important point to remember is that "Tom said" is NOT to be parsed as part of the dialogue because it is NOT. It is

just a comment "thrown" into the sentence to make for easier comprehension.

*****

In my first post, two writers opined that a sentence such as "The sky is blue," said he is considered

"old-fashioned," etc. because "he" is a pronoun. But I think that it is grammatical. According to those writers,

it just sounds kind of "funny" in modern writing.

Here is a sentence from that grammar book:

"You have until six o'clock tonight to make up your mind," he said brusquely. [brusquely = rather rudely]

The dialogue tag is "he said brusquely." It is NOT part of the actual sentence. But did you notice the writer

wanted the reader to know that the sentence was said by "him" in a rude manner? For example (my bad example):

"I don't love you anymore, Tony," she said, turning her ahead from him in anger. I guess a writer can set the scene by

using long dialogue tags, but please remember -- grammatically speaking -- they are NOT part of the dialogue. They are

just tags. When you buy a dress, there is a price tag. But the tag is not part of the dress itself.


James

My source: R.W. Pence and D.W. Emery, A Grammar of Present-Day English (1963), pp. 142 - 143.
 
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