These or they?

Rachel Adams · Jun 18, 2019

Hello.

Are 'they' and 'these' always used as they are given in the book? Or is it possible to use ''these'' instead of ''they'' someyimes?

A.What are the these/they?

They/these are lions.

B.What are these? (do you use 'they' when referring to inanimate things?

These are chairs.

emsr2d2 · Jun 18, 2019

"What are these?", "What are those?" and "What are they?" are all possible depending on the context.

Rachel Adams · Jun 18, 2019

I thought these sentences are based on the rule that if you are talking about animals you can either use ''these'' or ''they'', and if you are talking about inanimate things only ''these'' and never ''they'' should be used.

J&K Tutoring · Jun 18, 2019

The spoken emphasis- shown in bold type- is important.

1. What are these? (something near me) or What are those? (something away from me) I am indicating something to someone else. We are discussing them for the first time.
1a. What are they? (things either near or far that we both have already acknowledged) This sentence often comes after something like: 'Do you see these/those?' In this case, I hope that the listener can help me understand what the things are. 'Do you see those things? What are they?'

1b. I wouldn't say, 'What are they?' as I pointed to something for the first time.

It's interesting you used the example of lions. "These are lions" tends to indicate we are close to the lions, and I don't care to be close to lions! In my tutoring on the subject of these/those, I use the sentence: _______ dogs are close to us. The logical choice is these, but what if you are afraid of dogs? Even dogs away from us (those) might seem too close, so the speaker might say Those dogs are close to us.

It doesn't matter if the thing in question is an animal or an inanimate object.
2. I saw those things when I walked in the room. What are they? They are spoons.
3. We are in the market together. I point and say, 'What are those?' You reply, 'They/those are eels.'

emsr2d2 · Jun 18, 2019

Rachel Adams said:
I thought these sentences are based on the rule that if you are talking about animals you can either use ''these'' or ''they'', and if you are talking about inanimate things only ''these'' and never ''they'' should be used.

Where did you read/hear that "rule"? It's nonsense.

jutfrank · Jun 18, 2019

Rachel Adams said:
I thought these sentences are based on the rule that if you are talking about animals you can either use ''these'' or ''they'', and if you are talking about inanimate things only ''these'' and never ''they'' should be used.

That has to be one of the most preposterous rules I've ever heard. Did a teacher really tell you that?

Tdol · Jun 19, 2019

Rachel Adams said:
if you are talking about inanimate things only ''these'' and never ''they'' should be used.

If you are talking about inanimate things, use it for the singular and they for the plural. You can use this/that/these/those when appropriate, but there's nothing wrong with they at all.

Rachel Adams · Jun 19, 2019

No. No one told me that. I was judging by the examples given in the book. In each question the book uses:''these''(what are these?) and in asnwers:''they''(they are lions, books, etc). The book I am talking about is Oxoford Discover for children.

Rachel Adams · Jun 19, 2019

Tdol said:
If you are talking about inanimate things, use it for the singular and they for the plural. You can use this/that/these/those when appropriate, but there's nothing wrong with they at all.

And if I am talking about animals. Are all the forms appropriate? ''this/that/these/those and they''.

teechar · Jun 19, 2019

Rachel Adams said:
And if I am talking about animals, are all the forms appropriate, ''this/that/these/those and they''?

.

emsr2d2 · Jun 19, 2019

Rachel Adams said:
And if I am talking about animals, are all the forms appropriate - ''this/that/these/those and they''?

Yes, they are all perfectly usable for animals (and for non-animals).

I'm curious. If you believe that "they" can't be used for animals, what word would you put in the space in the second sentence below?

I can see six horses. ________ are all black.

The only disagreement that occurs sometimes between native speakers is whether we can use "who" for animals. I would say "I have a cat who loves tuna". Some people would say that it should be expressed as "I have a cat that loves tuna". I tend to see animals like humans - living beings with likes, dislikes, personalities etc, so I use "who". People who see animals as things prefer "that".

Rachel Adams · Jun 20, 2019

emsr2d2 said:
Yes, they are all perfectly usable for animals (and for non-animals).

I'm curious. If you believe that "they" can't be used for animals, what word would you put in the space in the second sentence below?

I can see six horses. __these______ are all black. It was just my humble opinion, as I said I was judging by the book examples.

The only disagreement that occurs sometimes between native speakers is whether we can use "who" for animals. I would say "I have a cat who loves tuna". Some people would say that it should be expressed as "I have a cat that loves tuna". I tend to see animals like humans - living beings with likes, dislikes, personalities etc, so I use "who". People who see animals as things prefer "that".

I think even if it was wrong to use 'who' when talking about them, I would still use it. I don't understand those who see them as things. Thank you, for your explanation.

emsr2d2 · Jun 20, 2019

Well, life should be much simpler for you now that you know you can use "they/them" for all plural nouns!

Rachel Adams · Jun 20, 2019

Oh, no. Not yet. :-DI didn't ask if I can use them all when talking about people. ''They are French students'', I know it's correct but ''these/those are French students''? This/that/it's a French student. Are they all corect too?

Rachel Adams · Jun 20, 2019

1b. I wouldn't say, 'What are they?' as I pointed to something for the first time. Maybe that's why the book uses ''what are these in its questions''? And that's what I meant when I said perhaps there is a rule.

Raymott · Jun 20, 2019

Rachel Adams said:
No. No one told me that. I was judging by the examples given in the book. In each question the book uses:''these''(what are these?) and in asnwers:''they''(they are lions, books, etc). The book I am talking about is Oxoford Discover for children.

Try not to make up your own rules just because something isn't there.
"The cats' names are Sage, Rosemary, and Thyme." You cannot make up a rule from that that you can't call your cat Basil.

Tdol · Jun 20, 2019

emsr2d2 said:
The only disagreement that occurs sometimes between native speakers is whether we can use "who" for animals.

Many use she and he for pets.

emsr2d2 · Jun 20, 2019

Tdol said:
Many use she and he for pets.

I'm one of those people. And not just for pets - for wild animals too (when I know the gender, of course).

Yankee · Jun 20, 2019

Rachel Adams · Jun 21, 2019

Could anyone please answer my question in the post #14? I would be very grateful to you.

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