Arse or ass for butt

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primetec

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Hi together.

I have a question redarding both words "arse" and "ass". Which one is the origninal or the real one? (I mean the word for butt)

Somebody told me arse is proper englisch whereas ass is just the way americans express it.

The online dictionaries are telling me other things...can you help me out, please?

Greetz
 

SoothingDave

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Not a teacher.

I think the answer you get depends on whether you ask an American or a Briton.
 

Amigos4

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Not a teacher.

I think the answer you get depends on whether you ask an American or a Briton.
Definitely! You would get your 'arse' kicked in London while your American cousin would be getting his 'ass' kicked in New York! ;-) Nonetheless, regardless of how you say it, the same body part is going to be targeted in both countries! :cool:
 

philadelphia

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I have just chanced upon the following link, which is quite worth: Ass/Arse
 

Raymott

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Hi together.

I have a question redarding both words "arse" and "ass". Which one is the origninal or the real one? (I mean the word for butt)

Somebody told me arse is proper englisch whereas ass is just the way americans express it.

The online dictionaries are telling me other things...can you help me out, please?

Greetz
'Arse' was the original spelling.

I could have sworn I posted an extract from the OED with these words just a few days ago. It seems to have gone missing.
 

Raymott

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O.k, thx I believe you, but can you prove that? ;-)
Yes, I did by posting the entry from OED.
But I think the above link already establishes that 'arse' was used in the 1300s before 'ass' was used.
 

Ouisch

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This discussion reminds me of an episode of Cheers...Woody, the bartender, had just returned from a two-week vacation in England. While describing his trip he peppered his conversation with British phrases (saying "crisps" instead of "potato chips", "fortnight" instead of "two weeks", etc.) Everyone was getting annoyed and finally Sam said "Knock it off, Woody, you're making an ass of yourself." Woody replied, "I think you mean 'arse', Sam." :-D
 

bertietheblue

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'Arse' might be BrEng, but I think many people drop the /r/ in speech, at least in certain usages. I myself use both, depending on the word or expression. I would, for example, be:

more likely to say:
asshole (though I might write 'arsehole') - and I know many other British people drop the /r/ sound from this word, which is hardly surprising given that we hear it all the time in American movies

equally likely to say:
smart-arse / smart-ass
arse / ass

more likely to say:
half-arsed

only ever say (Is the word used as a verb only in BrEng? I ask because I've never heard 'ass' in the following):
to arse about - "I'm arsing about on this forum when I should be working on my house."
to not be arsed to do something (usually "can't/couldn't be arsed to do something") - "But, in truth, I can't be arsed to work on my house this evening."
 

TheParser

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'Arse' might be BrEng, but I think many people drop the /r/ in speech, at least in certain usages. I myself use both, depending on the word or expression. I would, for example, be:

more likely to say:
asshole (though I might write 'arsehole') - and I know many other British people drop the /r/ sound from this word, which is hardly surprising given that we hear it all the time in American movies

equally likely to say:
smart-arse / smart-ass
arse / ass

more likely to say:
half-arsed

only ever say (Is the word used as a verb only in BrEng? I ask because I've never heard 'ass' in the following):
to arse about - "I'm arsing about on this forum when I should be working on my house."
to not be arsed to do something (usually "can't/couldn't be arsed to do something") - "But, in truth, I can't be arsed to work on my house this evening."

***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Bertietheblue.

(1) Here in the United States, the word "a _ _ hole" is

taboo. It is not allowed on radio or regular TV. If you use

this word, you could get fired from your job. Also, of course,

the notorious f-word is absolutely banned from radio and regular

TV. Americans are often amazed at the kind of language that is

permitted on British TV. Even our newspapers would not directly

quote someone who said the f-word. Our Vice-President recently

used that word, and the TV shows "beeped" out that word. Does the BBC

"beep" out naughty words?

***** Thank you *****
 

bertietheblue

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***** NOT A TEACHER *****

Hello, Bertietheblue.

(1) Here in the United States, the word "a _ _ hole" is

taboo. It is not allowed on radio or regular TV. If you use

this word, you could get fired from your job. Also, of course,

the notorious f-word is absolutely banned from radio and regular

TV. Americans are often amazed at the kind of language that is

permitted on British TV. Even our newspapers would not directly

quote someone who said the f-word. Our Vice-President recently

used that word, and the TV shows "beeped" out that word. Does the BBC

"beep" out naughty words?

***** Thank you *****

In Britain, we have what is known as the '9pm watershed'. Material shown before is expected to be suitable for family viewing because large numbers of children may be watching, so if swear words are used they will be bleeped out. After 9pm though and parents are expected to share responsibility. This doesn't mean that anything goes after 9pm; what tends to happen is the later on in the night, the more likely you are to hear swear words.

Tabloid newspapers can be quite puritanical about swear words and avoid them unless quoting, in which case they will use asterisks in between the first and last letters. Among the 'quality press', ie the broadsheets, practice varies. The Daily Telegraph is more traditional and middle-class than the other broadsheets and has an older readership; unsurprisingly, it is firmly opposed to the use of profanities, and will only print them with asterisks if necessary when quoting. The Times (and Sundays-only the Sunday Times) has a wider and, on average, younger audience but it is still conservative in its taste (and politics) - there might be more profanities but they will still be marked with asterisks, with very rare exceptions. In the more liberal and left-leaning Independent (and Sundays-only Independent on Sunday) and, especially, The Guardian (and its Sundays-only sister paper, the Observer) swear words appear fairly frequently and never with asterisks. That doesn't mean they print profanities indiscriminately. Here's a recent Guardian article on its policy on swearing:

Mind your language: is there too much swearing in the Guardian? | Media | guardian.co.uk

It's interesting to note the figures on swearing in that article. In the 'past year' (so, I assume, April 2009-March 2010), the frequency of usage of the F-word (and C-word in brackets) in newspapers was as follows [edit: I assume that the figures are for usage without asterisks]:

Guardian 705 times (49)
Observer 269 (20)
Independent 279 (8 - I remember back in the 80s buying the paper, unsuspectingly, on the very day the C-word made its first-ever appearance in a British newspaper, with the publication of Tony Harrison's masterful poem V; I remember too the conservative outrage that followed when a filmed version was shown soon after)
Independent on Sunday 74 (5)
Times 3 (0)
Sunday Times 2 (0)
All other newspaper 0 (0)

Clearly, the Guardian is way ahead of all other newspapers when it comes to swearing and it seems it's on the increase (which partly explains why the Guardian felt it had to engage in a bit of soul-searching in the article quoted above). Here's a graphic for the years 1998-2008 showing the trend in the Guardian for the most common swear words:

Swearing in the Guardian, 1998 - 2008 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!


As for American TV, I will only say that I'm eternally grateful that puritanical censorship of sex and swearing (but not graphic violence) does not extend to cable TV. Otherwise there'd have been no The Sopranos, none of Al Swearengen's profane lyricism in Deadwood, and I would never have seen the heights and depths that television can reach with the greatest TV production of all time: The Wire.
 
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philadelphia

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Amigos4

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Interesting that arse, the word for this thread is on the decline.
Yes, it is ironic that 'arse' appears to be falling on its 'ass'! ;-)
 

TheParser

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Hello, Bertieblue.

(1) I never imagined that you would take so much time to answer me.

(2) Thank you SO much.

(3) It certainly gave me a complete picture of the situation in the UK.

***** Thank you again

P. S. Thank you, too, for teaching me how to spell "bleep." I shall NOT edit my

post in which I wrote "beep." I shall keep it there to remind myself of how little I

know of my only language. And why I should be super careful before having the

audacity to give out grammar advice (and spelling) to others.:)
 
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