Weird US English Part 436

I keep finding expressions in American English that I would correct in my students.

Today I got an email from an American using the term "undergraduate advising." Had she been a student I might have advised her not to use the gerund when there is a perfectly good noun: advice.

But then, perhaps advising means something other than advice? There is even a page called "Advising Advice"
Advising Advice
I thought it was a joke, but no, it is American.

I can remember running across Chicago train station when I heard that my train would be stopping "momentarily".

timtak said:

I keep finding expressions in American English that I would correct in my students.

Today I got an email from an American using the term "undergraduate advising." Had she been a student I might have advised her not to use the gerund when there is a perfectly good noun: advice.

But then, perhaps advising means something other than advice? There is even a page called "Advising Advice"
Advising Advice
I thought it was a joke, but no, it is American.

I can remember running across Chicago train station when I heard that my train would be stopping "momentarily".

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Yes, it sounds weird to me too. But how do you feel about 'counselling' in the same situation?

What do you call the people who help students with their course selection so that they are taking all the classes they need to complete their majors? We call those academic advisors. What they do is academic advising.

What do you call that?

momentarily [ˈməʊməntərəlɪ -trɪlɪ]
adv
1. for an instant; temporarily
2. from moment to moment; every instant
3. US and Canadian very soon Also (for senses 1, 2) momently [ˈməʊməntlɪ]

-- I have never used "momently" -- do you use that?

timtak said:

Today I got an email from an American using the term "undergraduate advising." Had she been a student I might have advised her not to use the gerund when there is a perfectly good noun: advice.

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I'm interested in seeing the context. Would you post it?

_____________________________

• Disputed usage: Your feature presentation will begin momentarily.
• Undisputed usage: The flash from the atom bomb momentarily lit up the night sky.

I heard a friend using momentarily several times to mean in a moment in the UK this summer, something I had never heard used by a BrE speaker before, and hadn't heard him use it, so it's a recent adoption by him- maybe it's starting to appear in BrE too.

T, what do you call what we call academic advisors? What do you call the service they are performing?

Barb_D said:

T, what do you call what we call academic advisors? What do you call the service they are performing?

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It's academic counselling here. And career counselling.
Student counselling is also used for the psychological type of work as well, but the meaning of "counselling" is apparently broader here.
You can see a counsellor for career advice, but not for 'advising'.

In the UK too- counselling has a broad meaning.

We too have career counseling (with that strange "one-L" spelling, which I've never understood), but academic advising at the university level, performed by academic advisors.

In middle and high school, we have guidance counselors. They have a range of responsibilities.

"Momentarily" is weird English? I'll admit that "undergraduate advising" sounds a bit pompous/overblown, but that's how AmE often is in academe. But "momentarily" has been used on common parlance as long as I can remember....when I was a wee little tot watching my cartoons on TV I remember sighing when an announcer would cut in with breaking news of some sort, or a presidential news conference, and assure us that "regular programming will resume momentarily." It was never momentarily; it was five minutes of the actual news, then 30 minutes of some analyst telling us what we'd just heard, etc. It didn't matter to me that we might have been moments away from a national disaster, the important thing was that Underdog was kaput for the day.

(And if you want to talk about "weird" English expressions, ask an AmE ESL teacher about the odd Britishisms we have to explain to students, and Bob's your uncle they'll waffle on for a fortnight. ;-) )

I loved Underdog. Almost as much as Rocky and Bullwinkle.

Ouisch said:

(And if you want to talk about "weird" English expressions, ask an AmE ESL teacher about the odd Britishisms we have to explain to students, and Bob's your uncle they'll waffle on for a fortnight. ;-) )

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My favo(u)rite expressions are the ones that Nessa (on the UK sitcom Gavin & Stacey) comes up with. I love the way she turns a phrase. The writing is fabUlous.

Ouisch said:

(And if you want to talk about "weird" English expressions, ask an AmE ESL teacher about the odd Britishisms we have to explain to students, and Bob's your uncle they'll waffle on for a fortnight. ;-) )

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Nice to hear AmE ESL teachers are also teaching proper English. :-D

Sorry I did not notice the kind posts to this thread.

Raymott said:

Yes, it sounds weird to me too. But how do you feel about 'counselling' in the same situation?

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I guess, I would say student counselling, not using the perfectly good noun "counsel." I'd use counselling not counsel because I suppose the latter has come to mean "counsellor" or an abstract noun referring to counsellors. Wikipedia says a "A counsel or a counsellor gives advice." Do counsellors give counsel in the US?

lauralie2 said:

I'm interested in seeing the context. Would you post it?

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Sure
"If you were writing with a question about undergraduate advising in xyz subject (including transfer courses, xyz advisors, course selection, meetings, etc.), please re-send your email to the interim Faculty Director of Advising, Dr. X at email address. "

Barb_D said:

T, what do you call what we call academic advisors? What do you call the service they are performing?

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For me, academic advisors advise, or give advice. Hence in the above, I guess I'd write, "If you are writing with a question about undergraduate advice/undergraduate advisors/advice for undergraduates..."

I was under the impression that "momentarily" meant in UKE "only for a moment", but perhaps the "in a moment" AmE has been accepted in the UK too. I did not understand it when I was in Chicago, and ran to catch the train that I thought, incorrectly, would be leaving after stopping "only for a moment". I have never heard of "momently" but it might be a good way of differentiating. But then I would say "briefly" to mean *momently.*

But then perhaps some people say, Yes.
Southern humor - Frank Baugh
"Your loan counselor will be with you briefly." Do folks say that in the UK. If my loan counselor said he was going to be with me briefly I might think that my load had been rejected.

I am still trying to work out if "I work a Job" is American English or just wrong (on another thread).

Although a speaker of British English myself, I tend to find it wise to think twice before criticizing American English, for two main reasons:

1. AmE often acts as a conserver of older/original meanings of words now consigned in BrE to history. One example that springs to mind is the use of 'guess' to mean 'think/suppose', which, far from a 'modern' invention or distortion, actually preserves a sense dating back to Middle English (I gesse, "I think", is common in Chaucer), whereas modern BrE "I reckon" originally meant "I count"!

Another is the - in my view, commendable - preservation of the present subjunctive after constructions expressing preference or necessity, e.g. It is vital that she be on time for her appointment - once de rigeur in all varieties of educated English. Frankly, I wince on hearing such locutions as ?It is vital that she is on time for her appointment (predicating the act in question as a fact rather than as a merely hypothetical notion) and find the use of 'should' here - normally a form expressing obligation rather than hypothesis - only marginally less objectionable!

2. It tends to be more logical and systematic in its application of syntactic rules, which must, at the very least, be admitted to be of benefit to the non-native learner.

One example among a number that could be cited is the regular concord of subject and verbal number in AmE. The oft-quoted assertion that ?The government are... somehow denotes a significantly different level of 'unity' from syntactically sound and logical the government is is one that I have never found particularly persuasive.

P.S. One small objection that I do have to AmE is the common use of ?different than, as opposed to etymologically justifiable different from.

timtak said:

"If you were writing with a question about undergraduate advising in xyz subject (including transfer courses, xyz advisors, course selection, meetings, etc.), please re-send your email to the interim Faculty Director of Advising, Dr. X at email address."

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Yup. It sounds odd to me too.





______________________
Re: "I work a Job"

I've heard it, but haven't yet used it.

philo2009 said:

P.S. One small objection that I do have to AmE is the common use of ?different than, as opposed to etymologically justifiable different from.

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The British use "different to" instead. ;-)

English Teacher said:

It really sound weird to me too..however, my opinion is not to correct someone speaking American English, to be honest I didin't know about advisory in this context either, but there are certain sthereotypes that in my opinion should be left the way they are, of course, if we are sure the ones using them are likely not to be mistaken, like in your case.

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:?:

birdeen's call said:

The British use "different to" instead. ;-)

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Now that's a revelation. Is that any better than "different than?" I find that my students usually say "different than," no matter how frequently I correct them. (I'm the first American teacher they've had.)

riquecohen said:

Now that's a revelation. Is that any better than "different than?" I find that my students usually say "different than," no matter how frequently I correct them. (I'm the first American teacher they've had.)

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I'm a from person. The Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary (6th edn) gives all three, labelling to BrE and than AmE in its examples. In a usage box it says, 'Different from is the most common structure in both BrE and AmE'.