[Vocabulary] ill logic or ill-logic instead of illogic

Status
Not open for further replies.

birdeen's call

VIP Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Polish
Home Country
Poland
Current Location
Poland
Would you consider using "ill logic" or "ill-logic" instead of "illogic" a mistake?
 

emsr2d2

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
That depends.

1) That's an illogical statement. Correct.
2) That statement is based on ill logic. Correct.
3) That statement is ill-logic. Incorrect.

I can't imagine using ill-logic at all.
Ill logic as an adjective+noun combination is fine.
Illogical as an adjective on its own is fine.

It would completely depend on context.
 

birdeen's call

VIP Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Member Type
Student or Learner
Native Language
Polish
Home Country
Poland
Current Location
Poland
That depends.

1) That's an illogical statement. Correct.
2) That statement is based on ill logic. Correct.
3) That statement is ill-logic. Incorrect.

I can't imagine using ill-logic at all.
Ill logic as an adjective+noun combination is fine.
Illogical as an adjective on its own is fine.

It would completely depend on context.
Yes, however, I didn't mean "illogical", but "illogic" -- a noun. I understand that you endorse the phrase "ill logic". I don't see anything wrong about it personally either, but I have found that there is only a single hit for it in the BYU corpora, and one in which the use of the adjective "ill" is forced by the context. Because of this, I thought that, since "ill logic" sounds the same as "illogic", "ill logic" might perhaps be frowned upon as a misspelling. This is not the case then, thank you.
 

emsr2d2

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
Yes, however, I didn't mean "illogical", but "illogic" -- a noun. I understand that you endorse the phrase "ill logic". I don't see anything wrong about it personally either, but I have found that there is only a single hit for it in the BYU corpora, and one in which the use of the adjective "ill" is forced by the context. Because of this, I thought that, since "ill logic" sounds the same as "illogic", "ill logic" might perhaps be frowned upon as a misspelling. This is not the case then, thank you.

Ah, I understand now.

That statement is based on ill logic.
I can't believe the illogic of that statement!

I don't think "ill logic" would be viewed as a misspelling if it was clear that you know the meaning and how to use it, which I believe you do. The danger you would have would be with people who have no idea that illogic is a noun and is simply the opposite of logic!
 

SoothingDave

VIP Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
I've never used or seen "ill logic" used as a noun. I would say "faulty" or "flawed" logic.
 

Rover_KE

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 20, 2010
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
England
Current Location
England
I've never used or seen "ill logic" used as a noun. I would say "faulty" or "flawed" logic.

I agree. I didn't know ill logic existed and would certainly never consider using it.

I've forgotten it already, BC, and suggest you do the same.

Rover
 

5jj

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
Czech Republic
Current Location
Czech Republic
I agree. I didn't know ill logic existed and would certainly never consider using it.

I've forgotten it already, BC, and suggest you do the same.
I agree with Rover and SoothingDave.
 

BobK

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Location
Spencers Wood, near Reading, UK
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
I've never used or seen "ill logic" used as a noun. I would say "faulty" or "flawed" logic.
:up:Or 'bad' or 'self-serving' or 'specious' or 'spurious' or (very informal) 'duff' or 'dodgy'. I can imaging contexts where it might be used: for example - 'I'm not saying the argument is illogical; perhaps I would just say it shows ill logic' - a rather dubious play on words. But I've certainly never heard it either.

b
 

Route21

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2010
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
British English
Home Country
England
Current Location
Thailand
Hi BC

To add to what the other folks have said...

The prefix "ill-" in "illogical" has the same relationship to the word "ill" as it does in "illegal" or "illegitimate" - i.e. none!

It merely negates the word, in the same way as similar prefixes in: innoxious, impenetrable, ignoble, irrefutable, irrevocable, invariable.

Hope this helps
R21
 
Last edited:

Barney55

New member
Joined
Jun 4, 2011
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
American English
Home Country
Pakistan
Current Location
Pakistan
illogic is a word that means: Invalid or incorrect reasoning.

Its adjective is illogical that can be used as :

1. Your statement for this seems to be totally illogical.
2. I don't like illogical reasoning at all.
 

BobK

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Location
Spencers Wood, near Reading, UK
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
Hi BC

To add to what the other folks have said...

The prefix "ill-" in "illogical" has the same relationship to the word "ill" as it does in "illegal" or "illegitimate" - i.e. none!

It merely negates the word, in the same way as similar prefixes in: innoxious, impenetrable, ignoble, irrefutable, irrevocable, invariable.

Hope this helps
R21

There's a rule; but learning the rule takes almost as long as learning all the apprent exceptions. And even then, there's still an exception: ignoble.

If you think of the prefix as 'iN-', then you can use these transformations:

'iN- + <word>' -> 'in + word. (e.g. inactive, incapable, indecent, inequitable, infamous, ingratitude, inhospitable... etc)

UNLESS the following word or morpheme starts with one of these:
  • bilabial consonant, then 'iN- + <word>' -> 'im + <adj>' (improbable,imbecile, immaculate etc)
  • 'l', then 'iN- + <word>' -> 'il + <word>' (illogical, illegal etc.)
  • 'r', then 'iN- + <word>' -> 'ir + <word>' (irregular, irredeemable, etc)

The apparent counter-example 'inbred' isn't, because its 'in-' prefix isn't the same as the polarity-reversing 'iN-' prefix.

b
 

emsr2d2

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jul 28, 2009
Member Type
English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
UK
Current Location
UK
Sorry, I should have made it clear that I was not connecting "illogic" to "ill logic". I simply meant in the original post that, when spoken, the two sound very similar. I also should have pointed out that I have not heard "ill logic" used since about 1987 when my A Level English teacher used to use it quite regularly. I too wouldn't encourage its use. "Flawed logic" is indeed much better.

I shouldn't post when I haven't had much sleep!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top