[General] and ever after/ leading bucks of the day

Dear teachers,

Would you be kind enough to tell me whether I am right with my interpretation of the expressions in bold in the following sentence?

On returning to India, and ever after, he used to talk of the pleasure of this period of his existence with great enthusiasm, and give you to understand that he and Brummel were the leading bucks of the day.

and ever after = to the last days

buck = a robust or high-spirited young man; Jack-a-dandy; nut

Thank you for your efforts.

Regards,

V

A buck is a male deer. Bucks fight to get the supremacy in the herd. The buck that wins is a leading buck that other bucks must respect. "Leading bucks" in your quotation is a metaphor. It means a man who is respected by others because of his strength, vigor and masculinity.

Hi birdeen's call,

You would have had better notion about the phrase in question if you have taken the trouble to read at least a chapter of the Thackeray’s “Vanity Fair”.

Among other things, there are many words in English that are polysemantic, for example the word “stag” which is very close to the word in question.

stag = 1. The adult male of various deer 2. A person who attends a social gathering unaccompanied by a partner, especially a man who is unaccompanied by a woman.

At the same time the present word is a slang term for short-term speculator

dandy = a man who affects extreme elegance in clothes and manners; a fop

I am deeply convinced that the young Joseph Sedley was a dandy and not a Superman how you wanted to impress on us..;-)

V.

You would have had better notion about the phrase in question if you have taken the trouble to read at least a chapter of the Thackeray’s “Vanity Fair”.

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Vil, I find this rude...

Rude but a home truth.

I like to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

V.

vil said:

Rude but a home truth.

I like to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

V.

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Oh, well...

vil said:

Rude but a home truth.

I like to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

V.

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Then you'll excuse me also calling you an arrogant fool? After all, I find it the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so it's not possibly in any way offensive or inappropriate?



@ Birdeen - I strongly suspect that your metaphorical use of "buck" was potentially the origin of why the word came to be used to refer to young men in this way, although I have heard an alternative theory that it came from the practice of wearing "buckskins". I'd be interested if any language experts who had more information on the origin of the term could offer comment.

Tullia said:

@ Birdeen - I strongly suspect that your metaphorical use of "buck" was potentially the origin of why the word came to be used to refer to young men in this way, although I have hear an alternative theory that it came from the practice of wearing "buckskins". I'd be interested if any language experts who had more information on the origin of the term could offer comment.

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I'm not sure about the etymology of this meaning, but I'm sure they call the animal "the leading buck". Here's an example: The Deer and the Tiger: A Study of ... - Google Books

birdeen's call said:

I'm not sure about the etymology of this meaning, but I'm sure they call the animal "the leading buck". Here's an example: The Deer and the Tiger: A Study of ... - Google Books

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Interesting :-D It might well be a set phrase referring to an animal, but I think in vil's quote leading and bucks don't go that closely together to form a unit, not exactly.

It means leading in the sense of famous, a leader in social terms, pre-eminent, or foremost.
"Dr. Green is one of the leading scientists in his field."

Buck stands alone and does have the meaning of a high-spirited young man. You most often hear it nowadays in the phrase young buck(s) nowadays to refer to such men, although I think it's dying out a little. (Such a shame!).



As it happens, I have read Vanity Fair, and rather enjoyed it, but I don't think the reading of it especially influenced my interpretation of the phrase in question this time. As to whether a chapter of it would have helped you... well, I guess that depends on the chapter, for if it was one without this phrase in, I can't for the life of me see what the use would have been ;-)

I happen to think reading less widely but in more depth is far more rewarding in the long term - I'd always recommend the whole novel not just a chapter!


Slightly off-topic, but for what it's worth, I would take exception to describing Brummel as a "dandy"; fastidious and interested in his personal appearance and a trend-setter yes, a dandy no. It was his imitators who became dandies ;-) (Yeah, I have a soft spot for him, I can't help it!)

Well, I did read the book... ;-)

Would you agree that "buck" can mean dandy? I don't think so. Robust, high-spirited, vigorous man, yes...

birdeen's call said:

Well, I did read the book, actually... ;-)

Would you agree that "buck" can mean dandy? I don't think so. Robust, high-spirited, vigorous man, yes...

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Did you enjoy it?

I don't think buck means dandy at all, personally; I'm at work and thus away from my dictionaries but only one online one seems to list that as a meaning, and acknowledges it as archaic even then.

A buck might well also happen to be a dandy but I don't consider them automatically synonymous. Sedley might well have been a dandy, but he wanted, so the original quote says, people to think of him as a buck

Thanks!
I can barely remember how I liked it, I read it some thirty years ago Surely, it wasn't my favorite at the time.

Words, words, words….

"O sweet Juliet, Thy beauty hath made me effeminate and in my temper. ... An oxymoron describes when two juxtaposed words have opposing or very diverse meanings. ..

Here are a few words from the “Vanity fair” which have to refresh your reminiscences of the old days described from Thackeray for whom I have a profound respect.

A VERY stout, puffy man (do you like such a "masculine" Apolon? ), in buckskins and Hessian boots, with several immense neckcloths that rose almost to his nose, with a red striped waistcoat and an apple green coat with steel buttons almost as large as crown pieces (it was the morning costume of a dandy or blood of those days) was reading the paper by the fire when the two girls entered, and bounced off his arm-chair, and blushed excessively, and hid his entire face almost in his neckcloths at this apparition.

He did not live with his family while in London, but had lodgings of his own, like a gay young bachelor. Before he went to India he was too young to partake of the delightful pleasures of a man about town, and plunged into them on his return with considerable assiduity. He drove his horses in the Park; he dined at the fashionable taverns (for the Oriental Club was not as yet invented); he frequented the theaters, as the mode was in those days, or made his appearance at the opera, laboriously attired in tights and a cocked hat.

"I don't think buck means dandy at all, personally; I'm at work and thus away from my dictionaries but only one online one seems to list that as a meaning, and acknowledges it as archaic even then. "

The written in Italic is not my work.

Here is an excerpt from a dictionary:

buck

I [bʌk] 1. noun.

• 1) plural. buck, Bucks male animal (deer, antelope, hare, rabbit, sheep, goats)
• 2) lips. " dandy, fop Synonyms:
  dandy, fop

V.

Tullia said:

...


@ Birdeen - I strongly suspect that your metaphorical use of "buck" was potentially the origin of why the word came to be used to refer to young men in this way, although I have heard an alternative theory that it came from the practice of wearing "buckskins". I'd be interested if any language experts who had more information on the origin of the term could offer comment.

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I've never met the buckskin idea. I think the deer metaphor idea is spot on. The mothers were the hunters, the daughters with their dowries were the bait, and the well-endowed (both physically, intellectually, socially and financially) young men were the prey. Of course, they were often willing prey, and went along with the whole game (often in ways that made them dandies).

This whole extended metaphor was enshrined in the title of the novel Regency Buck. I'm sure Beau Brummel would have been described as a buck...

b

BobK said:

This whole extended metaphor was enshrined in the title of the novel Regency Buck. I'm sure Beau Brummel would have been described as a buck...

b

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What is it with this board and Georgette Heyer references lately? We really must try finding a slightly more high-brow author to talk about!

A learner

He and Brummel were the leading bucks of the day.

He and Brummel were the cores of the day. (intentionally plural)

Tullia said:

What is it with this board and Georgette Heyer references lately? We really must try finding a slightly more high-brow author to talk about!

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With all this Thackeray and Dickens stuff, I thought I should lower the tone. ;-)

b