[General] Should be absent/were absent

Status
Not open for further replies.

LiuJing

Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
China
I am learning the usage of 'should' and one usage says:

The teacher was astonished that 10 students should be absent today.

The book says it means 'the teacher was astonished that 10 students were absent today', but the word 'should' stresses the degree of the astonishment. Is the explanation right in your opinion?

Thank you in advance.
 

abaka

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
English
Home Country
Canada
Current Location
Canada
Yes. Exactly right. The "should" expresses a more unlikely case than the simple past, and therefore the teacher's astonishment is even greater.

Note the three hypotheticals, in decreasing probability:

1. If ten students are absent (at least as likely as the students' presence)
2. If ten students should be absent (a possibility)
3. If ten students were to be absent. (a more hypothetical possibility)

In the construction with "that", "were to be" is not an option, but "that 10 students were absent today" is still less probable than "that 10 students were [=past of are] absent today".
 

abaka

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
English
Home Country
Canada
Current Location
Canada
I should think the less likely the event, the greater the astonishment -- and the greater the astonishment, the less likely the event. Otherwise why be astonished at all? Ten absences certainly require greater explanation than two!

In other words, the "should" connotes both how improbable ten absences are, AND the teacher's astonishment -- just as LiuJing's textbook says, and in perfect agreement with the order of decreasing probability I quoted.
 

LiuJing

Member
Joined
May 30, 2010
Member Type
Interested in Language
Native Language
Chinese
Home Country
China
Current Location
China
I would understand "should" in this context to mean that the teacher was astonished that such an event would occur. I don't see how the degree of astonishment is referred to here, it is pointing more to the fact that such a large number of students were not in attendance.

Can I rephrase it to mean the same by: the teacher just couldn't believe the fact that ten students were absent today.
 

abaka

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
English
Home Country
Canada
Current Location
Canada
Can I rephrase it to mean the same by: the teacher just couldn't believe the fact that ten students were absent today.

Yes.
 

Barb_D

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Member Type
Other
Native Language
American English
Home Country
United States
Current Location
United States
No.
You could say greatly surprised that so many students were absent but not change it to disbelief.
 

abaka

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2009
Member Type
Other
Native Language
English
Home Country
Canada
Current Location
Canada
"I can't believe" is a common enough colloquialism that really just means "i am shocked" or "I am very surprised". Astonishment and disbelief overlap.

Yes.
 

bhaisahab

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Member Type
Retired English Teacher
Native Language
British English
Home Country
England
Current Location
Ireland
"I can't believe" is a common enough colloquialism that really just means "i am shocked" or "I am very surprised". Astonishment and disbelief overlap.

Yes.

It's not suitable in the context of the English classroom.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top