[General] Frisk

Tina3 · May 23, 2012

I was frisked at the gate.

The verb frisk is transitive. So the above is not correct. I don't know.

It was a football match. The security staff looks for dangerous people

5jj · May 23, 2012

Somebody frisked me - I was frisked.

The verb 'frisk' is indeed transitive, and the passive form is fine.

emsr2d2 · May 23, 2012

As 5jj said, it's perfectly acceptable in both the active and passive. In the context you quoted (searching someone), what wouldn't be acceptable is "He frisked."

"To frisk" has two meanings though, and the other meaning ("to move about briskly and playfully") is intransitive and "He frisked" would be fun in that context

5jj · May 23, 2012

Whenever I am not slaving away here, I frisk, frolic and gambol with my girlfriends in the garden.

In my dreams.

billmcd · May 24, 2012

Tina3 said:
I was frisked at the gate.

The verb frisk is transitive. So the above is not correct. I don't know.

It was a football match. The security staff looks for dangerous people

The past participle "frisked" in your example is used as an adjective.

SoothingDave · May 24, 2012

"To frisk" has two meanings though, and the other meaning ("to move about briskly and playfully") is intransitive and "He frisked" would be fun in that context

I did not know that. "Frolic" I know.

Barb_D · May 24, 2012

billmcd said:
The past participle "frisked" in your example is used as an adjective.

It's the particple because it's passive. It's not an adjective. It's hard for me to think of a natural context for "frisked" as an adjective.

billmcd · May 24, 2012

Barb_D said:
It's the particple because it's passive. It's not an adjective. It's hard for me to think of a natural context for "frisked" as an adjective.

Excerpt from Hunter(College).cuny.edu and "my head" ():

When the past participle (-ed, -en form) is used, the noun it describes is (or was)acted upon. For example, in "The child is frightened by the dog", the child is the receiver of the action and is described as a frightened child.

A past participle adjective:

o indicates a past or completed action or time
o is formed from a verb using the perfect form and the passive voice
o does not take an object
o is often called the -ed form
o often has the same form as the simple past of the verb

The chicken was eaten. The passenger (I) was frisked. In a more direct use of "frisked" as an adjective, "The frisked passengers were upset and considered it an invasion of their privacy".

5jj · May 24, 2012

The Hunter (College).cuny.edu and your head are entitled to their opinions, but few writers this side of the pond would agree. In clear passive voice and perfect aspect constructions, most writers consider the third form/past participle of the verb to be just that, part of the verb:

The dog has frightened the child.
The child was frightened by the dog.

When used immediately before a noun, such words are generally considered to be functioning as adjectives:

The frightened child screamed.

Following BE and other linking verbs, there is no general agreement, though if the third form is followed by 'by' it's generally considered to be part of the verb:

I am frightened by dogs. Verb
Don't go. I am frightened! ?adjective.

CarloSsS · May 24, 2012

5jj said:
The Hunter (College).cuny.edu and your head are entitled to their opinions, but few writers ON this side of the pond would agree. .

Is there a missing "on", or is it just a construction I don't know about yet?

5jj · May 24, 2012

CarloSsS said:
Is there a missing "on", or is it just a construction I don't know about yet?

I, personally, would always use 'on' - except when I carelessly omit it.

. However, I think that there are some who would not insist on it there.

emsr2d2 · May 24, 2012

I would probably include "on" more often than not but I have no problem with its omission.

There are 12 of us this side of the room.
There are 6 more people the other side of this door.

billmcd · May 24, 2012

5jj said:
The Hunter (College).cuny.edu and your head are entitled to their opinions, but few writers this side of the pond would agree. In clear passive voice and perfect aspect constructions, most writers consider the third form/past participle of the verb to be just that, part of the verb:

The dog has frightened the child.
The child was frightened by the dog.

When used immediately before a noun, such words are generally considered to be functioning as adjectives:

The frightened child screamed.

Following BE and other linking verbs, there is no general agreement, though if the third form is followed by 'by' it's generally considered to be part of the verb:

I am frightened by dogs. Verb
Don't go. I am frightened! ?adjective.

Do you have any references that "most writers consider the third form/past participle of the verb to be just that, part of the verb"? I won't argue that it is "just that", but I would argue that it is "only that". As I posted previously, I acknowledge that the construct is in passive form. So, I would only go as far as to say that the past participle can "wear two hats", and occasionally at the same time.

CarloSsS · May 24, 2012

emsr2d2 said:
I would probably include "on" more often than not but I have no problem with its omission.

There are 12 of us this side of the room.
There are 6 more people the other side of this door.

Is the usage without "on" more colloquial perhaps? Or is it exactly the same?

Barb_D · May 24, 2012

Could you start a new thread about this "on" question, please Carlos? It is completely distracting from the original question about the particple.

Barb_D · May 24, 2012

While "The dog frigthened the child" and "The child was frightened by the dog" both can result in a natural "The frighted child stood frozen in place and cried," where the last "frightened" in an adjective, there is no way that "I was frisked at the gate" has "frisked" used an adjective.

I was happy in Maine. -- Okay. I was in a state of happiness.
I was frighted in the forest. -- Okay. I was in a state of fright.
I was frisked at the gate. -- No, I was not in a state of "frisk."

emsr2d2 · May 24, 2012

Barb_D said:
While "The dog frigthened the child" and "The child was frightened by the dog" both can result in a natural "The frighted child stood frozen in place and cried," where the last "frightened" in an adjective, there is no way that "I was frisked at the gate" has "frisked" used an adjective.

I was happy in Maine. -- Okay. I was in a state of happiness.
I was frighted in the forest. -- Okay. I was in a state of fright.
I was frisked at the gate. -- No, I was not in a state of "frisk."

I absolutely agree. I have looked and looked and can see no way that the word "frisked" in that sentence is anything but a part of the verb.

billmcd · May 25, 2012

emsr2d2 said:
I absolutely agree. I have looked and looked and can see no way that the word "frisked" in that sentence is anything but a part of the verb.

The defense rests--not to be confused with concedes.

[General] Frisk

Tina3

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5jj

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emsr2d2

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5jj

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billmcd

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SoothingDave

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Barb_D

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5jj

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CarloSsS

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5jj

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