[General] Future Teacher

Hey teachers,
I would like an advice on my concern. I have been in Australia for 7 years, I have finished my high school and three years at UNI (B.A), I then applied on the masters of teaching primary. However I was advised by a teacher to not process my masters and think more about such a career. She said that I’m not really good at English and I will not be accepted to work as a teacher with my current level of English. I got really shocked by what she said and didn’t believe her, although I know she is right about the fact that I’m not at highest level of English but I can speak and write English to a good extend. I have now commenced my masters, I do strangle with the level of English but I’m really motivated to finish my masters even if I don’t get a job after graduation. I’m now working more on my English but honestly don’t know how to improve academically. In regards to communication, I don’t speak English only three times a week that when I go to UNI, THATS ALL.
So I want your advice on what I told you and also I really want to know how to improve my English!?
Also, if you could inform about how you find my English from the above text, I would so much appreciate it J
Thanx in advance
JoOory

JoOory said:

Hey teachers,

I would like [STRIKE]an[/STRIKE] some advice [STRIKE]on my concern[/STRIKE] about an issue.

I have been in Australia for 7 years, I have finished [STRIKE]my[/STRIKE] high school and completed three years at [STRIKE]UNI[/STRIKE] university (B.A). I then applied [STRIKE]on[/STRIKE] for[STRIKE]the[/STRIKE] a Masters [STRIKE]of[/STRIKE] in[STRIKE]teaching primary[/STRIKE] Primary Teaching. However, I was advised by a teacher [STRIKE]to[/STRIKE] not to [STRIKE]process[/STRIKE] continue with my application for a[STRIKE]my[/STRIKE] Masters and think more about such a career. She said that I’m not really good at English and I will not be accepted [STRIKE]to work[/STRIKE] as a teacher with my current level of English. I [STRIKE]got[/STRIKE] was really shocked by what she said and didn’t believe her, although I know she is right about the fact that I’m not at the highest level of English but I can speak and write English [STRIKE]to a good extend[/STRIKE] well.

I have now commenced my Masters. I do [STRIKE]strangle[/STRIKE] struggle with the level of English but I’m really motivated to finish my Masters even if I don’t get a job after graduation. I’m now working more on my English but honestly don’t know how to improve academically.

In regards to communication, I don’t speak English only three times a week that when I go to UNI, THATS ALL. (I'm confused: do you only speak English three times a week, at uni? Or is uni the only time that you don't speak English?)

So I want your advice based on what I've told you and also I really want to know how to improve my English.

Also, if you could [STRIKE]inform about[/STRIKE] let me know how you find my English from the above text, I would [STRIKE]so much[/STRIKE] really appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.
JoOory

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Your English is quite impressive and I have made a few amendments above as requested.

I would have thought that your university professors/tutors would be able to give you guidance on the likelihood of your gaining employment as a Primary School teacher without being a native English speaker. I don't know what the general state of affairs is in Australia with primary school teaching, but it should be fairly easy to find out if your level of English would be sufficient. Can the Department of Education (or whatever you have in Australia) not advise you in this regard?

The only thing it's impossible to tell from these threads is the level of your spoken English. Most people write better than they speak, simply because they have the time to think about what they're writing and, of course, their accent doesn't come through in writing.

Thank you very much for your time.

The teacher actually advised me to change the whole career. But then when I called the department of Education to ask about the English requirements, they said if we have any concern regarding teachers English level, we set a test to find out their English level, so I can do this test when I finish my Masters. I'm going well so far but I’m not sure in the prac time what will happen.

You made a good point there, I do think before I write anything but when I speak its quite different as I communicate without thinking, so I find myself using "mmm" "mmm" a lot.

And thanks for the correction

JoOory said:

Hey teachers,
I would like an advice on my concern. I have been in Australia for 7 years, I have finished my high school and three years at UNI (B.A), I then applied on the masters of teaching primary. However I was advised by a teacher to not process my masters and think more about such a career. She said that I’m not really good at English and I will not be accepted to work as a teacher with my current level of English. I got really shocked by what she said and didn’t believe her, although I know she is right about the fact that I’m not at highest level of English but I can speak and write English to a good extend. I have now commenced my masters, I do strangle with the level of English but I’m really motivated to finish my masters even if I don’t get a job after graduation. I’m now working more on my English but honestly don’t know how to improve academically. In regards to communication, I don’t speak English only three times a week that when I go to UNI, THATS ALL.
So I want your advice on what I told you and also I really want to know how to improve my English!?
Also, if you could inform about how you find my English from the above text, I would so much appreciate it J
Thanx in advance
JoOory

Click to expand...

Your current level in English is not a decisive point here, but rather your vocation and your willingness to study it hard, develop and enhance your skills. If you are motivated enough nothing can stop you, believe me. But bear in mind that being a non-native English speaker you will always find prejudices and difficulties to transpose. Depending on your personality though, you may turn these prejudices and difficulties to challenges to get through and extract more motivation from them.

I can't evaluate your english level nor your professional issue itself, but...

As your tutor told you your English is not good enough one thing you have to consider: improve it and give it special attention. Maybe you would consider talking to her/him again and ask for one more year to see how you improve.

If you don't feel that confident on your english level for the job you want now, consider another roadmap for your career, not a tottaly different career but one that will help you to get where you want to. Always look for different opportunities. Good luck.

Sorry, but I do think all the English teachers should be native speakers of English. In France we are taught English by French speakers until we go to Uni, so I personnaly did not learn anything or so. Well, their accents just suck, they have not got a clue about what is currently being used in the English-speaking countries, and their courses and explanations are by far too theoretical.

The native speakers of English are definitely better at all this.

philadelphia said:

Sorry, but I do think all the English teachers should be native speakers of English. In France we are taught English by French speakers until we go to Uni, so I personnaly did not learn anything or so. Well, their accents just suck, they have not got a clue about what is currently being used in the English-speaking countries, and their courses and explanations are by far too theoretical.

The native speakers of English are definitely better at all this.

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Different situations, you missed the point.

ymnisky said:

Your current level in English is not a decisive point here, but rather your vocation and your willingness to study it hard, develop and enhance your skills. If you are motivated enough nothing can stop you, believe me. But bear in mind that being a non-native English speaker you will always find prejudices and difficulties to transpose. Depending on your personality though, you may turn these prejudices and difficulties to challenges to get through and extract more motivation from them.

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I AM motivated to finish the Masters at least. I remember when I finished the ESL course and decided to go to year 11, some teachers and friends (who were alreay in high school) advised me to reconsider my decision because years 11 and 12 are totally different than ESL. Instead, the teachers advised me to further improve my English by attending advanced English course but I was determined to finish high school. Imagine, the friends who advised me to reconsider my decision actually scored 34, 40 for their UAI (there were not native, but they done their primary schooling in Australia, so their English is excellent), whereas I got 75 and I got the highest mark in my English class, 82. Teachers were really proud of me.

But I think the current issue is different as I will be a teacher so I need to be an English proficient . Anyways I’m still determined to do my Masters even if I don't get a job after graduation.

anreak said:

I can't evaluate your english level nor your professional issue itself, but...

As your tutor told you your English is not good enough one thing you have to consider: improve it and give it special attention. Maybe you would consider talking to her/him again and ask for one more year to see how you improve.

If you don't feel that confident on your english level for the job you want now, consider another roadmap for your career, not a tottaly different career but one that will help you to get where you want to. Always look for different opportunities. Good luck.

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Yeh that’s what I need, IMPROVE MY ENGLISH. But don't know how? Talking with that teacher again would just make me depressed, so I better see how I go with my first semester in Masters and then decide. Good suggestion, I will look for a similar job but not totally different. Thanx

philadelphia said:

Sorry, but I do think all the English teachers should be native speakers of English. In France we are taught English by French speakers until we go to Uni, so I personnaly did not learn anything or so. Well, their accents just suck, they have not got a clue about what is currently being used in the English-speaking countries, and their courses and explanations are by far too theoretical.

The native speakers of English are definitely better at all this.

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I will be Primary School Teacher not just a teacher of English. I know what you are talking about because same think applies back in my country, we learn basic English. But I think my issue is different, a teacher in Australia will need to follow the curriculum syllabus in the teaching strategy. But you made good points to put in mind.

As you're already living in Australia, it's difficult to suggest ways in which you can improve your level of English, at least not in the same ways that I would suggest to those living in non-English speaking countries.

You have clearly picked up a high level, but (no offence intended) it's not yet fluent or anywhere near at a native level. That is no surprise - I think it takes half a lifetime living somewhere before you can reach that high a level.

The amendments I made, for example, to your first post were important though it was perfectly easy to understand what you were trying to say.

The important thing to remember, though, is that even though you won't be an English teacher, you will be teaching solely in English. At a primary school, the children are themselves getting to grips with their own language so it's important that their teachers give them a good example of spoken and written English. Five- and six-year-olds pick up language incredibly quickly but that means that they will copy any mistakes you make while you're teaching them. I'm sure you wouldn't want to be responsible for a whole class of children thinking that "I want an advice..." is correct English (just an example from your first post).

I admire your determination to continue with your Masters and it certainly seems that you have decided that you want to be a primary school teacher. Whether your English level is at a suitable level by the time you finish your Masters remains to be seen.

Please don't get me wrong - your English is very good, but we are talking about educating small children in your non-native language. That's a tough job!

philadelphia said:

Sorry, but I do think all the English teachers should be native speakers of English. In France we are taught English by French speakers until we go to Uni, so I personnaly did not learn anything or so. Well, their accents just suck, they have not got a clue about what is currently being used in the English-speaking countries, and their courses and explanations are by far too theoretical.

The native speakers of English are definitely better at all this.

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This is another point, some intersection but another one.
But what an important one! I have been thinking in starting a new thread with this point for a long time, about since I registered at UsingEnglish. I'll write some words about it now.

An English teacher should be a professional aware of the nuances, subtleties of language acquiring, language itself, language usage, linguistics, etc. There are many many other relevant points. And I am not yet talking about the division of fields such as teaching ESL, teaching English to English native speakers, teaching children, or many other ones.
For instance, if you are teaching ESL some knowledge of the students L1 might be helpful. It would be too naive an oversimplification to think that a foreign student will learn English solely by imitating his or her teacher. I do believe that a non-native English speaker teacher may give important contributions to many realms of English
teaching.


As a friend of mine likes to say, "the package never comes complete", so it is difficult, if possible, to find an ideal English teacher. However, since by the end of the day it is the student himself who has to do all the learning job, I stick with Guimarães Rosa: "Mestre não é aquele quem sempre ensina, mas quem de repente aprende."

There is some interesting stuff about native English speakers teaching English (the other side of the coin) here: https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/102128-native-vs-non-native-2.html
(note particularly the mini-rant by dragn)

Just for the record: Although I have already taught English for a short period of my lifetime, I am neither a professional English teacher nor a native English speaker.

anreak said:

Different situations, you missed the point.

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No, I did not. I provided some examples as to why the English teachers should be native speakers of English whatsoever the level or the type of persons who learns the language. At a same level, a native speaker will always be better than a non-native speaker.

JoOory said:

I will be Primary School Teacher not just a teacher of English. I know what you are talking about because same think applies back in my country, we learn basic English. But I think my issue is different, a teacher in Australia will need to follow the curriculum syllabus in the teaching strategy. But you made good points to put in mind.

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Your issue is not different. Children need to get the language from native speakers, that is just natural. How about the following? You could make mistakes, your accent will never be a native one, you cannot have the same understanding of the language than a native could have and it could go on. There are plenty of non-native speakers teaching English, however, I did hate learning English from non-native speakers of English.

philadelphia said:

You could make mistakes

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So could native speakers.

your accent will never be a native one

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Not true. With a lot of hard work and determination it is possible to achieve a native accent.

you cannot have the same understanding of the language than a native could have

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Not really.

There are plenty of non-native speakers teaching English, however, I did hate learning English from non-native speakers of English.

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Ditto on that one, but seeing that the OP is living in Australia, with enough hard work they could be as good as a native speaker.

Granted, at the current level the OP is a little far from that goal and the fact that after 7 years of living in Australia their English has been criticized is not very encouraging...

Hi philadelphia!

philadelphia said:

I provided some examples as to why the English teachers should be native speakers of English whatsoever the level or the type of persons who learns the language.

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Your opinion is important and I do respect it. You have been giving important relevant contributions to many discussions in this site, I always like to read your lines. But, with due respect, in this specific issue, I disagree with you.

philadelphia said:

At a same level, a native speaker will always be better than a non-native speaker.

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If you mean above that all the other qualities are exactly the same and the only difference is that one is a native speaker while the other one not, I may agree.
I'll have to think about it deeper.
Anyway, the point is that usually you will find teachers with different formations, experiences and skills. So, being a native speaker is certainly a plus which should be put on the table and weighed among the other factors.

philadelphia said:

Children need to get the language from native speakers, that is just natural. How about the following? You could make mistakes, your accent will never be a native one, you cannot have the same understanding of the language than a native could have and it could go on.

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But children do not acquire their native language from their teachers. Is L1 "taught" to children? It is a process, they learn it by interacting in many instances with native
speakers, not exactly in classroom.

philadelphia said:

There are plenty of non-native speakers teaching English, however, I did hate learning English from non-native speakers of English.

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Although I passed through similar situations, you cannot generalize it.

I do not mean to discourage the OP, however, the issue is mainly a matter of opinions, so I agree you may disagree.