[Vocabulary] "the express reason", What does it mean?

pinbong · Dec 19, 2010

Hi, teachers:

I'd love to know what does "the express reason" mean?

I looked up the word "express" in my dictionary and tried to match the right meaning to this context. But I'm not sure which one should be.

the two meanings I think might be applicable in this context:

adjective :
......
3. stated clearly: stated in a clear unambiguous way
his express wish

4. specific: definitely, and usually exclusively, intended or specified
It was formed for the express purpose of building affordable housing

Click to expand...

I'd love to know which one suits the term "the express reason" best?? If possible, can you explain this term in more detail??

Many thanks in advance.

5jj · Dec 19, 2010

Please supply more context.

pinbong · Dec 19, 2010

Thanks, Mr Fivejedjon. The following is the article from which the term came.

There is a marked difference between the education which every one gets from living with others, and the deliberate educating of the young. In the former case the education is incidental; it is natural and important, but it is not the express reason of the association. It may be said that the measure of the worth of any social institution is its effect in enlarging and improving experience; but this effect is not a part of its original motive. Religious associations began, for example, in the desire to secure the favor of overruling powers and to ward off evil influences; family life in the desire to gratify appetites and secure family perpetuity; systematic labor, for the most part，because of enslavement to others, etc.

And I also have difficulty analyzing the sentence structure of the last sentence: the underlined in bold.

I presume the whole underlined sentence consists of 3 parellel sentences, seperated by semicolon? I can see the connection of the first two sentences ("Religious associations began...." vs "family life (began omitted) in the desire"). But have no idea what the last sentence mean? I find it pretty obtrusive and can't see the point it was trying to make.

Take your time answering. And sorry for answering my questions in the middle of pre-Christmas chaos. Hearty thanks.

5jj · Dec 19, 2010

Your 'specific: definitely, and usually exclusively, intended or specified' would fit well with express reason. Living with others does not have an express reason, whereas deliberate education most certainly does: education!

I presume the whole underlined sentence consists of 3 parellel sentences, separated by semicolon? I can see the connection of the first two sentences ("Religious associations began...." vs "family life (began omitted) in the desire").
You are right. It would be more satisfactory if the last sentence were to be: systematic labour, for the most part, in enslavement to others.

birdeen's call · Dec 19, 2010

I hope I'm not being irritating, pinbong, but could you provide even more context? Like where the paragraph comes from, who wrote it and so on. I must admit that I have no idea now what it is supposed to say.

BobK · Dec 19, 2010

pinbong said:
Hi, teachers:

I'd love to know what does "the express reason" mean?

I looked up the word "express" in my dictionary and tried to match the right meaning to this context. But I'm not sure which one should be.

the two meanings I think might be applicable in this context:

I'd love to know which one suits the term "the express reason" best?? If possible, can you explain this term in more detail??

Many thanks in advance.

Meaning 3 depends on, and is a refinement of, meaning 4. You need a clear idea of something before you can express it unambiguously and successfully. Quite often 'an express purpose' is one that has been expressed. Even if it hasn't been expressed, the point of the word is that it could be. (You need to know the context to know whether the writer has this distinction in mind - but, given those dictionary definitions, you have everything you need to make a judgment.) ;-)

b

pinbong · Dec 19, 2010

Thank you , Mr. BobK. Does that last underlined sentence in bold make any sense to you native speakers?

5jj · Dec 19, 2010

pinbong said:
Thank you , Mr. BobK. Does that last underlined sentence in bold make any sense to you native speakers?

As I said in post #4, " It would be more satisfactory if the last sentence were to be: 'systematic labour, for the most part, in enslavement to others'."

You could then understand 'began' after 'systematic labour'.

pinbong · Dec 19, 2010

Thank you, Mr. fivejedjon. Point taken.

birdeen's call · Dec 19, 2010

I'm not a native speaker and this sentence doesn't make sense to me in the given context. The previous sentence suggests that we are dealing with a short list of "social institutions" and "their original motives". And indeed, the list begins with two examples of social institutions (religious associations and families) and supposed desires (motives) that drive those who create(?) them. But, while I can suffer calling systematic labour a social institution (although I don't see why a single person couldn't labour systematically), there is nothing I think that would justify giving "enslavement to others" as its motive. Perhaps "a desire to enslave others"? It's still weird but at least seems more logical...

5jj · Dec 19, 2010

You are right, as usual, BC. I didn't spot the lack of logic there. To match the other two, it should be in the (or perhaps a) desire to enslave others.

Jaskin · Dec 19, 2010

Please note I'm not a teacher nor a native speaker;

It's so hard to understand what the author meant because it's a IMHO very purely written extract from "democracy and education" by John Dewey

The Place of Formal Education. There is, accordingly, a marked difference between the education which every one gets from living with others, as long as he really lives instead of just continuing to subsist, and the deliberate educating of the young. In the former case the education is incidental; it is natural and important, but it is not the express reason of the association. While it may be said, without exaggeration, that the measure of the worth of any social institution, economic, domestic, political, legal, religious, is its effect in enlarging and improving experience; yet this effect is not a part of its original motive, which is limited and more immediately practical. Religious associations began, for example, in the desire to secure the favor of overruling powers and to ward off evil influences; family life in the desire to gratify appetites and secure family perpetuity; systematic labor, for the most part, because of enslavement to others, etc. Only gradually was the by-product of the institution, its effect upon the quality and extent of conscious life, noted, and only more gradually still was this effect considered as a directive factor in the conduct of the institution. Even today, in our industrial life, apart from certain values of industriousness and thrift, the intellectual and emotional reaction of the forms of human association under which the world's work is carried on receives little attention as compared with physical output.

Cheers

chevalier · Dec 19, 2010

--Not a teacher--

birdeen's call said:
there is nothing I think that would justify giving "enslavement to others" as its motive. Perhaps "a desire to enslave others"? It's still weird but at least seems more logical...

Or perhaps to end this enslavement? What was done by slaves in the past, now is done by workers. On the other hand some people say that sometimes there is no significant difference between a slave and an employee...

pinbong · Dec 19, 2010

I've noticed that posts either go totally unnoticed or get hotly debated. Some of my questions keep having new replies after I left.;-) But some of my earlier ones did not even get one answer, making me think I might have been blacklisted for my annoyingness.

If convenient, can anyone answer the other two of my questions? ;-)

https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/...e-differences-between-enterprise-venture.html

https://www.usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/137077-bit-little-little-bit-other-variations.html

Jaskin · Dec 19, 2010

Please note I'm not a teacher nor a native speaker;

birdeen's call said:
I'm not a native speaker and this sentence doesn't make sense to me in the given context. The previous sentence suggests that we are dealing with a short list of "social institutions" and "their original motives". And indeed, the list begins with two examples of social institutions (religious associations and families) and supposed desires (motives) that drive those who create(?) them. But, while I can suffer calling systematic labour a social institution (although I don't see why a single person couldn't labour systematically), there is nothing I think that would justify giving "enslavement to others" as its motive. Perhaps "a desire to enslave others"? It's still weird but at least seems more logical...

You must read it keeping in mind the pragmatism reject the question of free will and focuses only on consequences which is novelty, an option hence the "enslavement to others"; anyway the reasons or motives doesn't matter as the only thing that matters for pragmatist is the outcome in this case is the education.

Cheers;

BobK · Dec 19, 2010

pinbong said:
Thank you , Mr. BobK. Does that last underlined sentence in bold make any sense to you native speakers?

Have a look at this (Parallelism (grammar) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and see how fivejedjon's suggested rewording repairs the offending 'sentence'. The underlined words don't of themselves make sense, but native speakers could probably make sense of them. The trouble is - as subsequent discussions have shown - the writer isn't in control of those (conflicting) senses.

b

pinbong · Dec 21, 2010

BobK said:
Have a look at this (Parallelism (grammar) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) and see how fivejedjon's suggested rewording repairs the offending 'sentence'. The underlined words don't of themselves make sense, but native speakers could probably make sense of them. The trouble is - as subsequent discussions have shown - the writer isn't in control of those (conflicting) senses.

b

Thank you, Mr. BobK. For non-native speakers, the sentence is still intolerably inscrutable even if the syntax got repaired.

"Systematic labor (began) because of enslavement to others "---If that's what the writer intended to mean—still makes little sense to me.

First ,there's no counterpart of "systematic labor" in Chinese. I presume it refers to large-scale socially-organized labor characteristic of our industrial time?? Like many workers systematically work in factories for a living rather than work alone at home or as maids or servants in scattered units? Does "systematic labor" simply means "systematically-organized labor". Am I right here?

Second, "systematic labor (started) because of enslavement to others" is highly ambiguous. It could mean "Systematically-organized labor emerged because people(the working class) no longer wanted to be enslaved to others, (so they chose to seek job opportunities in big factories)"; Or "Systematically-organized labor emerged because some people(the priviledged class) wanted to more effectively perpetuate the working class's enslavement to themselves".

I'm not sure if I've expressed myself well. Anyways , as a non-native speaker I find it rather obscure. Ambiguous is the word, I guess.

Can anyone paraphrase this sentence to me?

5jj · Dec 21, 2010

I think people are worrying too much about this unimportant piece of writing. It's simply not well written.

pinbong · Dec 21, 2010

fivejedjon said:
I think people are worrying too much about this unimportant piece of writing. It's simply not well written.

I agree. But this piece of writing was from year 2009's national entrance examination for graduate school. Sort of the counterpart of GRE.

It was one of the 6 pieces of reading materials. Test takers were supposed to read through the whole article and translate the underlined ones into Chinese.

Think of those self-righteous examiners. They were a team of floppy-armed old buffers and spent months working on this piece of ****. Their malnourished brainchild deserves some attention(only for the sake of my graduate school enrollment though. haha:-D)

Excuse the language. I actually don't always talk like this.

5jj · Dec 21, 2010

I sympathise, pinbong.

All I was suggesting was that it is not really worth bothering now with trying to discover what the writer meant or could have said.

[Vocabulary] "the express reason", What does it mean?

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