"replace" and "substitute"

georgelee12071981 · Mar 13, 2014

When using "replace" and "substitute", I am confused about who are in the positions and who are removed.

1. I substitute A for B. It means A is in the position and B is removed, right?
2. I replace A with B. It means B is in the position and A is removed, right?
3. I replace A. It means A is removed but who is in the position is unknown, right?
4. I substitute A. It means A is removed and I am in A's position now, right?
5. I substitute for A. It means A is removed and I am in A's position now, right?

Thank you

Barb_D · Mar 13, 2014

4 doesn't really work. The rest are right.

Raymott · Mar 13, 2014

I often find 'substitute' difficult, occasionally ambiguous.
1. "She substituted soy milk for cow's milk."
2. "She subtituted cow's milk with soy milk."
The meaning is the same, (she used soy milk instead of cow's milk), but she substitutes a different kind of milk in 1 and 2!
The applies to the OP's sentence 1. and 2, if in 2, 'replace' is substituted with 'substitute' - ie, 'substitute' is substituted for 'replace'.
It's one of those words that can have inverse meanings depending on the rest of the phrase.

See the 'Usage' paragraph here, which explains this a bit more.
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/substitute

Matthew Wai · Mar 13, 2014

georgelee12071981 said:
3. I replace A. It means A is removed but who is in the position is unknown, right?

"I" should be the one who takes the place of "A".

Not a teacher.

5jj · Mar 13, 2014

It could mean that it is the speaker who takes the place of A, but it does not necessarily do so. Context is important.

Matthew Wai · Mar 13, 2014

"I displace A".
Does it necessarily mean the speaker takes the place of A?

5jj · Mar 13, 2014

NO.

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/displace
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/replace

Raymott · Mar 13, 2014

"3. I replace A. It means A is removed but who is in the position is unknown, right?"

Matthew Wai said:
"I" should be the one who takes the place of "A".

"I replace the lightbulb." No, I don't twist my own head into the socket!

poorboy_9 · Mar 13, 2014

Shouldn't it be "I've often found substitute difficult, occasionally ambiguous." ?

5jj · Mar 13, 2014

It could be, but there is no reason why it should be.

Matthew Wai · Mar 13, 2014

Raymott said:
"3. I replace A. It means A is removed but who is in the position is unknown, right?"

"I replace the lightbulb." No, I don't twist my own head into the socket!

The OP said "who", so I guess A is someone instead of something such as a lightbulb.

Matthew Wai · Mar 13, 2014

5jj said:
NO.

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/displace
http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/replace

The following says it means "to take the place of" and [= replace], is it wrong?
http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/displace

5jj · Mar 13, 2014

No, it's not wrong. That is one of the meanings. You asked (my emphasis added) "Does it necessarily mean the speaker takes the place of A? "

Barb_D · Mar 13, 2014

Johnson was ill, so the coach replaced him as a starter for the match.
This does not meant he coach played instead of Johnson. It means the coach took Johnson out and someone else went in. We don't know who.

The coach can say "I replaced Johnson."

Like we say over and over, context is important. Essential, actually.

Matthew Wai · Mar 13, 2014

Barb_D said:
context is important. Essential, actually.

The coach could play instead of Johnson as long as the former was a newly retired player.

5jj · Mar 13, 2014

It's possible, but that is not the thought that would come to most people's minds in real life. The context for most native speakers is that coaches do not normally take the place of players.

So, although your sentence could theoretically mean that the coach played instead of the player listed, we would not give it that meaning unless the context indicated that this was the situation.

Barb_D · Mar 13, 2014

If we are going to get nit-picky, in professional sports in the US, he certainly could not. Players have to be on the roster and shown as active before the start of the game. I'd be shocked to find out that FIFA rules allow someone not on the roster to be in a match. College sports must be played by college athletes. A softball league for 12-year-old girls must be played by 12-year-old girls (or younger). It would be illegal for someone from the stands to come down and play, and it would be illegal for the coach to jump into the game, in any of those situations. In a casual recreational league for adults, that would probably work. But even in that latter case, as 5jj says, it's not what comes to most people's minds. The coach would say "I subtituted for Johnson myself" or "I took the place of Johnson myself" not "I replaced Johnson on the starting lineup."

georgelee12071981 · Mar 14, 2014

Thanks!
Your link is quite useful.
May I say the preposition will determine which meaning we should follow?
I suppose that:
If the preposition is "with", "substitute" is identical with "replace". And it's more common in English nowadays.
But if the preposition is "for", "substitute" is to replace the object following "for". And it's less common in nowadays.
Are they right?
Thank you

Raymott · Mar 14, 2014

georgelee12071981 said:
Your link is quite useful.
May I say the preposition will determine which meaning we should follow? Yes.
I suppose that:
If the preposition is "with", "substitute" is identical with "replace". Yes.
And it's more common in English nowadays. I wouldn't place too much emphasis on that. They are both used.
But if the preposition is "for", "substitute" is to replace the object following "for". Yes.
And it's less common in nowadays.
So the dictionary says, but it's of no consequence; you still need to understand it.

I think you're referring to my post #3. I have my threads set chronologically.

Barb_D · Mar 14, 2014

I think you'll find these are the most common.

I'm following a cookie recipe. The recipe says to use raisins. I don't have raisins, but I do have chocolate chips.

I replaced the raisins with chocolate chips.
I substituted chocolate chips for the raisins.

Also note that in other situations, "substitute" can be temporary, while "replace" can be permanent.
My science teacher has had a baby. Mrs. Smith is substituting for her until she comes back.
My science teacher won the lottery and bought an island in Greece. Mrs. Smith has replaced her.

"replace" and "substitute"

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