[Vocabulary] more muted

notletrest said:

“In Europe, taxes account for up to four-fifths of the retail price, so even quite big changes in the price of crude oil have a more muted effect on pump prices than in the past." (RET.194)
May I ask: Supposing muted effect = 10, how much are much muted effect and less muted effect respectively?
Thanks!

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Raymott said:

"More muted means" > 10; "Less muted" means < 10. "Much muted" is unrateable.
"Much more muted" would depend on how much more, and would also depend on what sort of scale you are using, eg. is it logarithmic?

That is, "more" and "less" and "much" have their usual meanings.
By the way: (RET.194) is not a reference. It's meaningless.

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Raymott said:

"More muted means" > 10; "Less muted" means < 10. "Much muted" is unrateable.
"Much more muted" would depend on how much more, and would also depend on what sort of scale you are using, eg. is it logarithmic?

That is, "more" and "less" and "much" have their usual meanings.


By the way: (RET.194) is not a reference. It's meaningless.

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notletrest said:

1. Besides, a Chinese book puts the second half [STRIKE]part [/STRIKE]of the sentence like this:... "even if quite a big change in the price of crude oil happens now, its effect on the pump price will be less than in the past."

What do you think of the Chinese translation?
It's OK with "if" in it.

In my opinion, the original sentence is omitted its main clause, it can be added like this:

2. In Europe, taxes account for up to four-fifths of the retail price, so even quite big changes in the price of crude oil have a more muted effect on pump prices than in the past, it won't matter much.
Please give some comments on my ideas!
Thanks a lot!

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Raymott said:

No, the original sentence in Post 1 is correct.
Perhaps you are reading an "if" into your sentence 2.:
3. "So even if quite big changes in the price of crude oil have a more muted effect on pump prices than in the past, it won't matter much.
The main clause here is "It won't matter much".

But there is no "if" in the sentence.
4. "So [conjunction] even quite big changes in the price of crude oil [subject] have [verb] a more muted effect on pump prices than in the past [object]" The main clause here is the whole sentence.

5. "So even if big changes have a more muted effect than they used to, it doesn't matter". OK
6. "So even big changes have a more muted effect than they used to". OK

Do you understand the difference?

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notletrest said:

“Even if quite a big change in the price of crude oil happens now, its effect on the pump price will be less than in the past."
from the view point of translation, according to the original one. In my eyes, it’s not good to use “ less “ instead of “ a more muted”.
“A little more “ is better. What’s your idea?
"A little more" is better than what? That is the opposite of "more muted" or "less".
A more muted effect is less of an effect, not a little more of an effect.

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Raymott said:

Yes, that sentence is OK. Whether you use "more muted" or "less" is a stylistic choice which doesn't change the meaning.

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notletrest said:

"A more muted effect is less of an effect, not a little more of an effect." muted = 10, more muted > 10, said by you.
​

Sorry , I am so stupid a man that I couldn't understand a more muted effect than in the past is less than in the past. Can you try and help me?
Thanks!

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Raymott said:

Sorry, I don't understand the tenses you're using. Are you saying you still don't understand it?

Look up 'mute' or 'muted'. It means lessened. A muted sound is less of a sound. If you mute it more, it becomes even less than before.
A more muted sound is even less of a sound.
A much more muted effect is even less of an effect than before.
"More muted" is not "More (but muted)" It's less!

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notletrest said:

Thank you for your immediate answer!
In my last post , I used " could" not " can", intending to show an euphemism.
You had said , " if muted = 10, more muted > 10," but last time you said ,' A muted sound is less of a sound. If you mute it more, it becomes even less than before." Isn't "mute it more" more muted?
In short, in the meaning , I think, muted is a little, more muted is a little more than a little, ie. a little on the whole, which even can be neglected. I am right, aren't I?
Thanks!

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Raymott said:

In short, if your scale is one of mutedness; and muted = 10, then less muted is less than 10, even though it is louder.
"More little" = smaller; "More light" = lighter. If you want your scale to go the other way, don't call it a scale or smallness, lightness or muteness, because generally, if you have the measures X-ness, the more X something is, the higher a rating it gets. A refrigerator that scores 9/10 for quietness is very quiet, not very noisy.

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notletrest said:

You are an indefatigable teacher.Thank you. I see all you said and agree with you
. Now , please give a comment on the sentence “even if quite a big change in the price of crude oil happens now, its effect on the pump price will be less than in the past.", from the view point of translation, according to the original one. In my eyes, it’s not good to use “ less “ instead of “ a more muted”. “A little more “ is better. What’s your idea?

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birdeen's call said:

Notletrest, take a look at the beginning of the second line in the quote box above. Can you see the period? It shouldn't be there. It belongs in the previous line, right after "you", without even a space, let alone a line break. The same goes for all periods, commas, question marks and exclamation marks you want to use.

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notletrest said:

more muted is a little more than a little, ie. a little on the whole, which even can be neglected. I am right, aren't I?

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Tdol said:

More muted has to be in comparison with something- it is not the next stage on from little. It could be small orlare depending on what it is compared to.

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5jj said:

The noise of a jet plane taking off is very loud.
The sound of a flea coughing is not very loud.

If you hold your hands over your ears both sounds will become muted.

If you hold your hands over your ears and close the windows (assuming that the jet plane and the flea are both outside your room), the sounds will become more muted.

If you hold your hands over your ears but open the window, the sounds will become less muted.

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