[Grammar] Who: Is it wrong?

Hello,

In the following paragraph, I wonder if "who" were actually "whom":

The BMW eventually ended up at the house in Blackburn and while Naveed spent time with another older teenage girl, who they had picked up in Burnley, Hussain went on to have sex with the second girl.

Jack_Rose said:

Hello,

In the following paragraph, I wonder if "who" were actually "whom":

The BMW eventually ended up at the house in Blackburn and while Naveed spent time with another older teenage girl, who they had picked up in Burnley, Hussain went on to have sex with the second girl.

(source: dailymail.co.uk)

Thanks in advance.


​

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It could be, but it's OK as it is.

Jack_Rose said:

Hello,

In the following paragraph, I wonder if "who" were actually "whom":




The BMW eventually ended up at the house in Blackburn and while Naveed spent time with another older teenage girl, who they had picked up in Burnley, Hussain went on to have sex with the second girl.

(source: dailymail.co.uk)​

Thanks in advance.​

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NOT A TEACHER


DEAR MR. ROSE:


(1) Congratulations!!! You are 100% correct. According to

the rules that some people try to follow, "whom" should be

used for the object.

(2) In your sentence, "whom" is the object of "had picked up."

In other words, "...while X spent time with another girl, they had

picked up whom in Burnley, Y went on to ...."

(3) Of course, many people nowadays no longer follow the

"whom" rule -- including many newspapers. (I think that some of the

"better" newspapers try to follow the rule. Maybe some newspapers

do not follow the rule because they want to be accepted by their

readers as "ordinary newspapers for ordinary people.")

(4) I always try to use "who" and "whom" correctly. There

are people who ridicule us fans of "whom." They say that the

"rule" is old-fashioned and that almost no one follows it anymore.

I always treat such criticism with courtesy and respect -- and

then I ignore their advice. It is impossible to please everyone

in this world. I'm pretty certain that most university instructors

hope that their students observe the rule.

(a) So welcome to the "whom" fan club. I hope that you sign up

more members.


Respectfully yours,


James

Dear James,

I am interested in your detailed explanation. Absolutely I could not wait to join the "whom" fan club.

Would you kindly tell me if there is any difference in the usages of "who" and "whom" between British English and American English?

Sincerely yours,

Jack

Jack_Rose said:

Dear James,

I am interested in your detailed explanation. Absolutely I could not wait to join the "whom" fan club.

Would you kindly tell me if there is any difference in the usages of "who" and "whom" between British English and American English?

Sincerely yours,

Jack

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NOT A TEACHER


DEAR MR. ROSE:


(1) Thank you for your kind note.

(2) I cannot answer your question because I do not know the

answer.

(3) I am sure that very soon you will receive excellent answers

from both American and British members.


Respectfully yours,


James

The distinction between "who" and "whom" is not followed by a great number of American speakers.

Using "whom" can make it appear that you are trying to show that you are superior in knowledge. I would only use it in formal writing.

The only time "whom" tends to be used is immediately after a preposition.

Barb_D said:

The only time "whom" tends to be used is immediately after a preposition.

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Do you mean we can use "who" instead of "whom" in any cases?
Is that acceptable in English tests? (I mean only FORMAL grammar can be correct in English tests).
I have the following sentences:
1. Mary whom I love doesn't like rose.
2. Mary who I love doesn't like rose.
3. Mary the heart of whom I have won doesn't like rose.
4. Mary whose heart I have won doesn't like rose.
Can #2 replace #1 to express the same idea?
Can #3 replace #4 to express the same idea?
Is the #4 correct?
I think it is better to use passive form here!
Thank you so much!

crazYgeeK said:

Do you mean we can use "who" instead of "whom" in any cases? Yes.
Is that acceptable in English tests? (I mean only FORMAL grammar can be correct in English tests). It depends on the test.
I have the following sentences:
1. Mary, whom I love, doesn't like [STRIKE]r[/STRIKE]Rose.
2. Mary, who I love, doesn't like [STRIKE]r[/STRIKE] Rose.
3. Mary, the heart of whom I have won, doesn't like [STRIKE]r[/STRIKE] Rose. Theoretically correct, but very unnatural.
4. Mary, whose heart I have won, doesn't like [STRIKE]r[/STRIKE]Rose.

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5

TheParser said:

(4) I always try to use "who" and "whom" correctly.
For most native speakers of BrE today, it is correct to use 'who' all the time.
There are people who ridicule us fans of "whom." They say that the "rule" is old-fashioned and that almost no one follows it anymore.
I do not ridicule 'whom'-users - I am one myself - but I do accept that we are rather old-fashioned.
[...] I'm pretty certain that most university instructors hope that their students observe the rule. Probably some might hope, but I imagine have given up expecting. Most do not use 'whom' themselves.

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It may well be that, in some examinations, the appropriate use of 'whom' is required. Teachers of examination classes should be able to to tell you.

Hello all,

Thank you all for your interesting discussions. I do appreciate your explanations.

I was very surprised to know that "who" can be used in most cases in English speaking countries. When reading British newspapers, I have found this fact quite often.

However, in the grammatical English books I have there is a clear distinction between "who" and "whom". Of course, I am talking about native books only.

Sincerely yours,

Jack

Note on 5jj's corrections: I had thought you had meant "roses" the flowers, and that the plural was required. I now think you could have meant a woman named "Rose," a possibility that had not occurred to me until I saw 5jj's post.

fivejedjon said:

5

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Thank you for your correction!
In fact, I wanted to mean a kind of flower by "rose" not a person named "Rose". Haha, was it not clear to understand that way? Could you please correct it as I wanted to mean?
Could you please give me a natural sentence using "whom" with a preposition right before, such as "of whom" that I tried making a one (but not natural as you said)?
Thank you so much!

crazYgeeK said:

Thank you for your correction!
In fact, I wanted to mean a kind of flower by "rose" not a person named "Rose".
Mary, whom I love, doesn't like roses.
Could you please give me a natural sentence using "whom" with a preposition right before, such as "of whom" that I tried making a one (but not natural as you said)?
Mary, of whom I have many tender memories, died ten years ago.

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5

Jack_Rose said:

Would you kindly tell me if there is any difference in the usages of "who" and "whom" between British English and American English?

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There aren't any real differences. Very few British speakers would say things like Whom did you see? nowadays in everyday conversation. About the only time it is still considered obligatory to use whom is directly after a preposition (To whom it may concern). In formal language, people may use it more.