Page 5 of 8 First 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Last
Results 41 to 50 of 73
  1. Raymott's Avatar
    VIP Member
    Academic
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Australia
      • Current Location:
      • Australia

    • Join Date: Jun 2008
    • Posts: 25,474
    #41

    Re: Would you mind if I opened the window?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    Of course I read your thread. I read all of the contributions. That yours was or wasn't authoritative wasn't of issue nor was it the issue.
    No, the issue was that you thought you had to research what the dictionary actually said. I had already done that and posted it.


    • Join Date: Jul 2006
    • Posts: 2,880
    #42

    Re: Would you mind if I opened the window?

    That wouldn't be because you're in it, would it?
    Okay, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and treat your question as genuine.
    No, it is because an authoritative dictionary is in it.

    Soup only counts for one
    It depends on what the etalon for one is.


    It's a courageous move posting this list in support of your argument!
    I did not provide it in favor of my argument. BTW, you are a humorous guy, Ray, are you not?

  2. bhaisahab's Avatar
    Moderator
    Retired English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Ireland

    • Join Date: Apr 2008
    • Posts: 25,719
    #43

    Re: Would you mind if I opened the window?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snappy View Post
    "Would you mind if I opened the window?" is found for the usage of the word "mind" in Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English. The dictionary explains that it is spoken and used when making a polite request.
    In the same dictionary, "Would you mind if I open a window?" is also found for the usage of the word "mind."
    Are these both acceptable and the same in meaning?
    "Would you mind if I opened the window?"
    "Would you mind if I open the window?"

    'Do you mind if I open the window' is correct.
    'Would you mind if I opened the widow' is correct.
    'Would you mind if I open the window' is not correct.
    'Do you mind if I opened the window' is not correct.

  3. Offroad's Avatar
    Key Member
    Interested in Language
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Brazilian Portuguese
      • Home Country:
      • Brazil
      • Current Location:
      • Brazil

    • Join Date: Feb 2008
    • Posts: 2,807
    #44

    Re: Would you mind if I opened the window?

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    'Do you mind if I open the window' is correct.
    'Would you mind if I opened the widow' is correct.
    'Would you mind if I open the window' is not correct.
    'Do you mind if I opened the window' is not correct.
    Is the red sentence grammatically correct in AmE?

  4. Dawood Usmani's Avatar
    Senior Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Urdu
      • Home Country:
      • Pakistan
      • Current Location:
      • Pakistan

    • Join Date: Aug 2007
    • Posts: 603
    #45

    Re: Would you mind if I opened the window?

    Quote Originally Posted by marciobarbalho View Post
    Is the red sentence grammatically correct in AmE?
    I'm not American but I have some American friends and they are all well educated. They said 'NO' in answer to your question.
    [When we have to speak, why don't we speak correctly?]
    Conclusion: General consensus in this matter is that this use is not grammatical nor commonly acceptable.
    Still the choice is yours....


    • Join Date: Jul 2006
    • Posts: 2,880
    #46

    Re: Would you mind if I opened the window?

    Quote Originally Posted by dawoodusmani View Post
    I'm not American but I have some American friends and they are all well educated. They said 'NO' in answer to your question.
    [When we have to speak, why don't we speak correctly?]
    Conclusion: General consensus in this matter is that this use is not grammatical nor commonly acceptable.
    Still the choice is yours....
    What would be your friend's explanation then for the occurence of the present-tense form in Longman's Dictionary?
    Are the guys from Longman less educated than your friends? Are they grammarians at all? Or they are engineers with a keen interest in their own mother tongue?

    Finally, please explain to me why the if clause cannot house a present tense form of 'open'? Which grammatical rule would be flouted?

    'Would you mind open if I open the door?' is not a conditional sentence, still less a second conditional. Why would it have to follow that grammatical pattern?

    Would you mind means May I. Nothing here is dependent on something else.

    http://www.english-test.net/forum/ft...80.html#121403
    http://www.english-test.net/forum/pr...iewprofile&u=7
    Last edited by svartnik; 01-Aug-2009 at 06:31.

  5. Key Member
    Academic
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • Japan

    • Join Date: Jan 2009
    • Posts: 1,482
    #47

    Re: Would you mind if I opened the window?

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    Philo, hi! Thanks for your comments. The problem is that I do not detect any condition in your "conditional" sentence. Consequently, as a non-native, non-educated no-body, I cannot accept your argument as true.
    Well, if you'll forgive the double negative, you're certainly not a 'nobody' in this forum, Svartnik! Indeed, you demonstrate at times a level of analytical ability that frankly surpasses that of some of the native contributors. I can therefore only conclude that, as regards this particular issue, you have something of a 'blind spot', or perhaps have simply been misled by a diabolical entry in a dictionary whose editor ought to have known better (and who I would humbly recommend be taken outside and shot at dawn for letting it through!)

    Given your normally sharp eye for grammatical structure and pattern, I must confess to genuine puzzlement at your contention that you "do not detect any condition" in the sentence at issue. To my mind, it is so screamingly obvious that I am almost at a loss where to start explaining it. But, I'll have a try, anyhow:

    Take any sentence of the type

    [[S1+would V][+if+S2+Ved]]

    in which 'if' cannot be supplanted by 'whether' (i.e. where it introduces an adverbial clause), then you have perforce a conditional sentence, of the type most commonly labelled a second conditional, wherein the VP of the subordinate denotes, according to verb type, an event or state considered by the speaker to be anything ranging from relatively improbable to downright counterfactual.

    Examples:

    [1] I would be angry if my wife bought a diamond ring.

    (i.e. in reality she does not buy diamond rings, or, at least, would be most unlikely to buy one.)

    [2] Would you be angry if your wife bought a diamond ring?
    [3] I would mind very much if my wife bought a diamond ring.
    [4] Would you mind if your wife bought a diamond ring?
    [5] Would you mind if I bought a diamond ring?

    As I trust you can now see, the sentence at issue,

    [6] Would you mind if I opened the window?

    is structurally identical, in every conceivable respect, to [5] above and that, needless to say (perhaps, but I'll say it anyway!),

    [6a] *Would you mind if I open the window?

    would be every bit as ungrammatical, and for precisely the same reason, as

    [1a] *I would be angry if my wife buys a diamond ring.
    [2a] *Would you be angry if your wife buys a diamond ring?
    [3a] *I would mind very much if my wife buys a diamond ring.
    [4a] *Would you mind if your wife buys a diamond ring?
    [5a] *Would you mind if I buy a diamond ring?

    What, I suspect, may be causing you some confusion here is the illocutionary function of [6]. We happen, in this case, to be employing a second conditional sentence in order to make a kind of request, disguising that request in a hypothetical form that is more socially acceptable than a direct request for permission: it seeks to maintain a kind of "polite fiction" that the act of my opening the window is so highly improbable that any question as to my collocutor's potential view of/reaction to it amounts to little more than academic speculation. Yes, it is semantically equivalent (or rather, to be precise, functionally equivalent) to more direct, simple

    May I open the window?

    but I am sure that I hardly need point out to you of all people that most fundamental of linguistic axioms that mere similarity of meaning neither implies nor confers identity of construction. If we were to be foolish enough to reason along those lines, we would be forced to conclude that, for instance,

    *May I to open the window?

    must be acceptable, since it means exactly the same as

    Would it be OK for me to open the window?


    !

    I hope that these few notes may serve to make things a little clearer.
    Last edited by philo2009; 01-Aug-2009 at 13:09.

  6. Dawood Usmani's Avatar
    Senior Member
    English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Urdu
      • Home Country:
      • Pakistan
      • Current Location:
      • Pakistan

    • Join Date: Aug 2007
    • Posts: 603
    #48

    Re: Would you mind if I opened the window?

    Very smart! You're the best, Philo!


    • Join Date: Jul 2006
    • Posts: 2,880
    #49

    Re: Would you mind if I opened the window?

    Philo, I do not want to go into analyzing the illocutionary force of "would you mind,"
    While I fully accept your argument, I am pretty sure there are other acceptable approaches as well. The question being, who accepts them. You are a grammarian, and I am a physicist. So grammar is your department more than mine. I put my hands up and defer to your better judgment.
    But before I go ... there is one more thing.
    I would like to ask you a few questions, if I may.

    'Would you mind if I open the window?' is fine and so also is 'opened'. The second example is really a little too pedantic.
    This comment was made by an English language trainer, an editor, a tutor.

    What do you think this experienced grammarian had in mind when he said that? What do you think makes a language trainer say so? What do you think he meant by "pedantic"?

    Now please look at Soup's comments. I hope we can agree on her excellent skills in the English language.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    In answer to your question, yes, both "open the window" and "opened the window" are acceptable English.

    The Standard (i.e., formal language, including spoken and written English) houses a present tense verb. The reason being, a polite request is asked before the act takes place, so a present tense verb is used:

    • Would you mind if I open the window?



    The spoken-form houses a past tense verb. The reason, analogy: elsewhere in the grammar there is a similar structure, would + if + past tense (See type 2 conditionals):
    What do you make of her comments?

    Next one. CalifJim is a grammarian, one of the top dogs in Englishforums. This is his piece he said in this matter.

    "Would you mind if I opened the window?"
    "Would you mind if I open the window?"

    Both are quite acceptable. The meaning is identical. Some people believe the use of "opened" makes the request a little more polite, but I don't detect any real difference.
    englishforums.com

    Lastly,

    spoken used when making a polite request:
    I wonder if you could help me.
    I'd be grateful if you would send me further details.
    Would you mind if I open a window?
    If you would just wait for a moment, I'll try to find your papers.
    if - Definition from Longman English Dictionary Online

    To what do you put down the different opinions expressed in the above reliable sources? Are there other approaches than the conditional in this matter?
    Convince me, but above all the OP, that they are all wrong and only you are correct.

    Thanks! svartnik

  7. engee30's Avatar
    Key Member
    Retired English Teacher
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • England

    • Join Date: Apr 2006
    • Posts: 2,928
    #50

    Exclamation Re: Would you mind if I opened the window?

    I've done some research and got baffled a bit. It took me some time, but I think it was worth it. The conclusion is that it is true that the construction Would you mind if... functions as a request, and actually it doesn't require the true conditional structure - would if + past tense.
    That said, I'd personally recommend applying the true conditional structure, for such usage is commonly accepted and I'm sure you'll find it in all grammars, I mean those by the foremost publishers.
    So to me, it's now a matter of recommendation rather than saying which is right and which is wrong.
    I'd always go for would you mind if + past tense if asked about which structure to use.

Page 5 of 8 First 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Last

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •