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    #1

    native vs non-native

    What are the advantages or disadvantages of being native English speaker or by the same token non-native speakers?


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    #2

    Re: native vs non-native

    Quote Originally Posted by mrenda82 View Post
    What are the advantages or disadvantages of being native English speaker or by the same token non-native speakers?
    In what respect? Anyway, the idiom 'by the same token' is ill-used in your sentence.

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    #3

    Re: native vs non-native

    I am waiting either the original poster answer svartnik or someone else's position. Then maybe I can say something from a non-native English speaker point of view.

    While waiting I thank svarnik on
    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    In what respect? Anyway, the idiom 'by the same token' is ill-used in your sentence.
    I did not know that idiom either.

    1. In the same way, for the same reason. For example, He has a good ear for music, and by the same token he finds it easy to pronounce foreign words. This phrase today is used in a general way to connect statements that have some logical association with one another. [Mid-1400s]
    2. As a corroborating circumstance, as in Boston's population has grown very fast, and by the same token its urban problems have also increased. [Late 1800s]

    From by the same token: Information from Answers.com

    Or take a look at: By the same token - Idiom Definition - UsingEnglish.com

    PS Feel free to correct any mistakes on my posts


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    #4

    Re: native vs non-native

    by the same token
    used to mean that something you are about to say is also true, for the same reasons as what has just been said:
    I don't think that prices will go up but, by the same token, I don't see them going down either

    Cambridge Dictionaries Online - Cambridge University Press

    IMO, this is incorrect too.

    Please, someone, tell me what is same in the reasons that 'I do not think prices will go up' and 'I do not think prices will go down'.

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    #5

    Re: native vs non-native

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    In what respect? Anyway, the idiom 'by the same token' is ill-used in your sentence.
    "By the same token" is used in Australia in the sense of the UsingEnglish.com definition. It's as if a token, like a coin, has two sides. You flip a coin and it can turn up either heads or tails.
    It's used when one thing is positive, another negative (but both resulting from a common cause).
    She's very smart but, by the same token, her personality sucks.

    To the original question, the main advantage of being a native English speaker is that you don't have to go to the trouble of learning it as a second language.
    The main disadvantage is that you are denied the pleasure of learning English as a second language.

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    #6

    Re: native vs non-native

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    IMO, this is incorrect too.
    ???

    I beg your pardon ...


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    #7

    Re: native vs non-native

    Quote Originally Posted by ymnisky View Post
    ???

    I beg your pardon ...
    A devil-may-care attitude prevails regarding the use of this idiom. Wherever I turn I see different opinions.

    Raymott says:
    It's used when one thing is positive, another negative
    He has a good ear for music, and by the same token he finds it easy to pronounce foreign words. = +; +
    by the same token: Information from Answers.com

    She's very smart but, by the same token, her personality sucks.

    What does common cause mean here, Ray?

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    #8

    Re: native vs non-native

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post

    To the original question, the main advantage of being a native English speaker is that you don't have to go to the trouble of learning it as a second language.
    The main disadvantage is that you are denied the pleasure of learning English as a second language.
    Well as I promised, here goes my opinion:

    For a non-native English speaker:

    The main disadvantage is clear: You have to study hard, in a sense that time you spend studying English could be used to study something else. Despite your hard studying it is very difficult to speak with the right intonations, you seem to be cursed to have a non-native accent forever. In my case for example, who has never been abroad, it is impossible to speak with any truly English variety accent.

    The main advantage is that since English tends to be a kind of an international language, maybe the second most spoken language throughout the world, you are almost compelled to learn it. So begin your trajectory with two languages, your own native one and English. I think that native English speakers do not feel such a necessity of learning a second language.

    Another advantage for the non-native is that you always have a good excuse for your English mistakes.

    Well mrenda82, regardless on the above answer, I still repeat here svartnik
    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    In what respect?

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    #9

    Re: native vs non-native

    Quote Originally Posted by svartnik View Post
    A devil-may-care attitude prevails regarding the use of this idiom. Wherever I turn I see different opinions.

    Raymott says:


    He has a good ear for music, and by the same token he finds it easy to pronounce foreign words. = +; +
    by the same token: Information from Answers.com

    She's very smart but, by the same token, her personality sucks.

    What does common cause mean here, Ray?

    I guess we have two different topics here in the same threat.

    I don't see the use of discussing the "real" meaning of that idiom. I have already seen the examples and I have read the posters opinions. An idiom
    is something 'alive' and dynamic which suffers changes according to location and time.

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    #10

    Re: native vs non-native

    Quote Originally Posted by ymnisky View Post
    Well as I promised, here goes my opinion:

    For a non-native English speaker:

    The main disadvantage is clear: You have to study hard, in a sense that time you spend studying English could be used to study something else. Despite your hard studying it is very difficult to speak with the right intonations, you seem to be cursed to have a non-native accent forever. In my case for example, who has never been abroad, it is impossible to speak with any truly English variety accent.

    An 'English accent' is overrated. After all, native speakers all have different accents. The important thing is not whether you sound like a native speaker, but whether you can be understood.


    The main advantage is that since English tends to be a kind of an international language, maybe the second most spoken language throughout the world, you are almost compelled to learn it. So begin your trajectory with two languages, your own native one and English. I think that native English speakers do not feel such a necessity of learning a second language.

    That's true to a large extent. But I think being multilingual is advantageous in many ways, and English natives with less motivation to achieve this, generally don't. And if an English native wants to learn a foreign language, it's often difficult to decide which, since there is often no obvious second choice after English.

    Another advantage for the non-native is that you always have a good excuse for your English mistakes.
    R.

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