Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. Huda-M's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Urdu
      • Home Country:
      • Pakistan
      • Current Location:
      • Pakistan

    • Join Date: Aug 2008
    • Posts: 1,209
    #1

    Unhappy Old english?

    Dear Teachers,

    I have read and heard the words ' art ', ' thou ', ' seest ' etc instead of are, you and see respectively. I am a bit confused about them. First, i thought they were words from old english as i read them in a book, wriiten quite long ago, called The Three Musketeers. But then, I heard the same in an english movie. Please tell me that why these words are used instead of the original ones, and can we use them now in our essays etc in school

    Thankyou in advance.
    (If there are any mistakes in my text of any type, please inform me!!)


    • Join Date: Oct 2006
    • Posts: 19,434
    #2

    Re: Old english?

    These are archaic forms and are not used now, unless you are trying to reproduce old speech patterns.

    What was the film you saw?

  2. konungursvia's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Mar 2009
    • Posts: 5,158
    #3

    Re: Old english?

    "Thou" is an intimate form of "you" which no longer used in most dialects of modern English, although there are still parts of England where it is said. It is comparable to "tu" in Hindi and Urdu, and is used to address family members, close friends, God, people we know well, children and subordinates. "You" is used as a polite form with strangers, superiors, elders, others we do not know well.

    These are "original" words, and are not substitutes for others as you seem to think.

    Basically, England had a civil war in the mid-1600s in which Puritans changed the culture forever. The theatre, even Shakespeare, were outlawed for a time, England was briefly a sort of Republic, and everyone was now addressed "you" in an effort to eradicate class distinctions, and other good ideas.

    Eventually the monarchy was restored, and the theatre allowed once again, but "thou" didn't make a comeback.

  3. Huda-M's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Urdu
      • Home Country:
      • Pakistan
      • Current Location:
      • Pakistan

    • Join Date: Aug 2008
    • Posts: 1,209
    #4

    Talking Re: Old english?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglika View Post
    These are archaic forms and are not used now, unless you are trying to reproduce old speech patterns.

    What was the film you saw?

    Thankyou, Anglika! I really don't remember the name of the movie... But it was a modren english movie. I was actually just checking channels!

  4. Huda-M's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Urdu
      • Home Country:
      • Pakistan
      • Current Location:
      • Pakistan

    • Join Date: Aug 2008
    • Posts: 1,209
    #5

    Re: Old english?

    Quote Originally Posted by konungursvia View Post
    "Thou" is an intimate form of "you" which no longer used in most dialects of modern English, although there are still parts of England where it is said. It is comparable to "tu" in Hindi and Urdu, and is used to address family members, close friends, God, people we know well, children and subordinates. "You" is used as a polite form with strangers, superiors, elders, others we do not know well.

    These are "original" words, and are not substitutes for others as you seem to think.

    Basically, England had a civil war in the mid-1600s in which Puritans changed the culture forever. The theatre, even Shakespeare, were outlawed for a time, England was briefly a sort of Republic, and everyone was now addressed "you" in an effort to eradicate class distinctions, and other good ideas.

    Eventually the monarchy was restored, and the theatre allowed once again, but "thou" didn't make a comeback.
    Thankyou very much! Were Puiritans some kind of warriors????
    As for 'tu', it is also used in punjabi language, mainly by illiterate people.

  5. konungursvia's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Mar 2009
    • Posts: 5,158
    #6

    Re: Old english?

    In most Indo-European languages, both educated and uneducated people use both polite and familiar forms, depending on whom you're talking to.


    • Join Date: Oct 2006
    • Posts: 19,434
    #7

    Re: Old english?

    Quote Originally Posted by Huda-M View Post
    Thankyou very much! Were Puiritans some kind of warriors????
    As for 'tu', it is also used in punjabi language, mainly by illiterate people.
    The Puritans are also known as "Parliamentarians" and were extreme Protestant Christians, opposed to the Roman Catholic beliefs of the then king, Charles I. Search for "Civil War, England, 17th century" for information on this.

    "Thou" is dialectical in Northern England, and is not heard at all in southern. It has nothing to do with closeness or not, but is a survival of an old form.

  6. Huda-M's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Urdu
      • Home Country:
      • Pakistan
      • Current Location:
      • Pakistan

    • Join Date: Aug 2008
    • Posts: 1,209
    #8

    Re: Old english?

    I get it now, thankyou, Anglika!

  7. konungursvia's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • Canada
      • Current Location:
      • Canada

    • Join Date: Mar 2009
    • Posts: 5,158
    #9

    Re: Old english?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anglika View Post
    The Puritans are also known as "Parliamentarians" and were extreme Protestant Christians, opposed to the Roman Catholic beliefs of the then king, Charles I. Search for "Civil War, England, 17th century" for information on this.

    "Thou" is dialectical in Northern England, and is not heard at all in southern. It has nothing to do with closeness or not, but is a survival of an old form.
    The form in question is the familiar second person, as opposed to the polite form of the second person. It was used to express familiarity, and had a lot to do with how close, or how well known, the interlocutor was.

    We see this in Shakespeare, where the respectful "you" form is used between aristocrats, and to aristocrats by subalterns, and where the familiar "thou" form is used toward servants, but also between friends.

    For example, in the forest scene in As You Like It, the Duke and Lord call each other "you" and address Jacques "thou", who calls them "you" in turn, though friends and relatives use "thou".

    SCENE VII. The forest.


    • Join Date: Oct 2006
    • Posts: 19,434
    #10

    Re: Old english?

    True enough. But it is now archaic and not used, save in restricted dialectical cases. It is pointless to continue to argue that because in the past it was used that it is still a valid use. It is not.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Traditional English is facing extinction
    By English traditionalist in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 29-Oct-2009, 17:27
  2. How does an English club in your area work?
    By sympathy in forum Teaching English
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 21-Nov-2008, 15:19
  3. Please check my writing for mistakes!
    By flowerseed in forum Editing & Writing Topics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 12-Oct-2008, 14:40
  4. What is an english corner?
    By Guest in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-Oct-2008, 00:20
  5. Is it right?
    By Genrikh in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-Dec-2005, 16:59

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •