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  1. anupumh's Avatar
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    #1

    Arrow Above and Over

    Hi,

    Is is correct that with prepositions above and over, one can only use dynamic verbs with over and static with above?

    Please explain

    Thanks


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    #2

    Smile Re: Above and Over

    Quote Originally Posted by anupumh View Post
    Hi,

    Is is correct that with prepositions above and over, one can only use dynamic verbs with over and static with above?

    Please explain

    Thanks
    I don't think that's true. Can you give us a couple examples of how you'd like to use these prepositions with stative or progressive verbs?

    I haven't heard of this restriction on "above" and "over".


  2. Raymott's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: Above and Over

    Quote Originally Posted by anupumh View Post
    Hi,

    Is is correct that with prepositions above and over, one can only use dynamic verbs with over and static with above?

    Please explain

    Thanks
    You might be confusing it with the prepositions themselves.
    The bird flew over my house - dynamic. It flew from one side of my house to the other.
    The birth flew above my house - static. It was flying in circles, or hovering above my house.
    But even that's not necessarily true.

  3. anupumh's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: Above and Over

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    I don't think that's true. Can you give us a couple examples of how you'd like to use these prepositions with stative or progressive verbs?

    I haven't heard of this restriction on "above" and "over".

    You use dynamic verbs with over, like fly, move...etc. And static with above. That's why you say: the house is above the city and the cloud is over the plane, because the house is standing still on the mountain and the city below it as well, but the plane is moving. Or another example: The lamp is above me. not over me. Over has a meaning like blanketing or to encircle something. The lamp can't be over (all over) you. /whether it is directly or not directly over you/.


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    #5

    Re: Above and Over

    Quote Originally Posted by anupumh View Post
    You use dynamic verbs with over, like fly, move...etc. And static with above. That's why you say: the house is above the city and the cloud is over the plane, because the house is standing still on the mountain and the city below it as well, but the plane is moving. Or another example: The lamp is above me. not over me. Over has a meaning like blanketing or to encircle something. The lamp can't be over (all over) you. /whether it is directly or not directly over you/.
    That's interesting.

    What about this?

    The airplane is flying above the clouds.

    airplane >> airplane >> airplane >> airplane >> airplane >>
    __________________________________________________ _
    clouds - clouds - clouds - clouds - clouds - clouds - clouds

    Here's one more.

    The plane flew over the city.

    airplane >> airplane >> airplane >> airplane >> airplane >>
    __________________________________________________ __
    City

    There are some differences between how we use above and over, but I don't believe these differences apply to movement - at least not all the time.

    In Prepositions Explained, Seth Lindstromberg - Over is prototypically a preposition of path - Okay, therefore, "over" is more likely to be used with a verb that can show motion or movement in some way. However, "above" is usually used with verbs that do not show movement to show one object's placement in relation to another. This is often true, but I think it's only "often true". I agree with Raymott's examples.

    I think we can say that, maybe, "over" and "above" can be used with dynamic verbs. However, it would be difficult to find examples of "over" with stative verbs, though, perhaps, not impossible, as over usually indicates movement and is considered a "preposition of path" - Prepositions Explained, Seth Lindstromberg.

    So, here's how we are unlikely to use "over", as I see it.

    Let's hang the picture above the window. - The window and the picture do not move.

    The picture is hanging above the window. - Once again, the window and the picture do not move. However, notice that we can use a progressive verb to describe a continuous state. Interesting. This just means the state is quite obviously temporary and subject to change at any time on the whim of the person who owns the picture and the room in which it is viewed.

    Now, I think that "over" is very unlikely in these last two sentences (but not impossible) because, as pointed out in Prepositions Explained, over is a preposition of path, and I would mostly tend to go along with that. However, as this is not a structural grammar rule, I don't think it's reliable as a rule. It's simply a matter of how we as humans view things from a particular perspective most of the time.

    That's my take on it after considering this and consulting Prepositions Explained. It's a good book.
    Last edited by PROESL; 09-Sep-2009 at 01:26.


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    #6

    Re: Above and Over

    Quote Originally Posted by anupumh View Post
    Hi,

    Is is correct that with prepositions above and over, one can only use dynamic verbs with over and static with above?

    Please explain

    Thanks
    Here's how they would clearly be different in their application.

    The Blue Angels made a quick pass over the Charles River on July 4th.

    The Blue Angels made a quick pass above the Charles River on July 4th.

    Using "above" in this sentence would be unlikely because "over", as a preposition of path - prototypically a preposition of path -, indicates movement. Once again, from Prepositions Explained, "Usually "above" involves only the up and down dimension".

    I agree with this, but the operative word here is "usually". As I see it, in many situations, people are very prone to overlook such operative words. I'm not at all sanguine about overlooking operative words.

    So once again, these observations about prepositions are good and mostly dependable guidelines based on their prototypical meanings and our human perspective of how objects in space and time relate to each other. However, they are not hard and fast structural grammar rules.
    Last edited by PROESL; 09-Sep-2009 at 01:04.


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    #7

    Re: Above and Over

    Quote Originally Posted by anupumh View Post
    Hi,

    Is is correct that with prepositions above and over, one can only use dynamic verbs with over and static with above?

    Please explain

    Thanks
    It's good to point out that "above" and "over" can be compared when speaking of measurements and scales.

    That's a tall fence. It's over ten feet. - not "above ten feet". - height

    That's a tall fence. It must be over ten feet. - - not "above ten feet" - more than ten feet = over ten feet

    It's been cold lately, but I think the temperature will rise above freezing tomorrow. (32 for the US and 0 for the rest of world ).

    We wouldn't say "rise over 0 or 32".

    above - measurements and vertical scales

    We're going over 90 MPH! Slow down! not "above 90 MPH".


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    #8

    Re: Above and Over

    Quote Originally Posted by anupumh View Post
    Hi,

    Is is correct that with prepositions above and over, one can only use dynamic verbs with over and static with above?

    Please explain

    Thanks
    Okay, here's a good one:

    We walked over the hill. not "above the hill".

    But, once again, this is simply based on our perception as humans that we cannot walk above a hill. Other views of how things relate to each other in space might not be so clear as this example.

    We stepped over the puddle. not "we stepped above the puddle".

    Put a cover over the food. - not "above the food".

    Here, we have to say "over" the food because "above" cannot indicate that two things touch. However, "over" can be used in this way.

    Put the cover on the pot of sauce. - Here, "over is not possible because the cover is in constant contact with the pot, whereas in the sentence "put a cover over the food", the cover can touch the food, but it doesn't have to touch it from corner to corner, end to end, and on all parts of the food.

    It took along time to get over this cold. We want to move away from the state of having a cold, so we "get over a cold"; we don't get "above a cold" and stay there. So we see how, even in an abstract way, "over" indicates movement - a preposition of path, and "above" does not necessarily indicate movement. It could indicate movement, but in a restricted area, as in Raymott's example sentence about the plane flying above the house, meaing "hovering" - remaining in a fixed location with limited movement.

    Think of a cold as an obstacle, such as fence, that you want "get over" and to the other side, with the other side being "not having the cold any longer".
    Last edited by PROESL; 09-Sep-2009 at 02:11.

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