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  1. #111
    konungursvia's Avatar
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    mm ... Then it seems a rather odd entitlement to draw one's attention to - me that is - seeing as I have the same entitlement but would not have thought of openly stating it or even thinking it necessarily in that particular manner.
    In all fairness, Bhaisahab is so gentle he would not be likely to do what you're thinking. In fact, if you re-read the whole bit, it looks like you're challenging his authority to give an opinion. You asked him to justify his contribution, and he answered basically that he based his opinion on his judgment, rather than on logic.

  2. #112
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    In some contexts the past perfect would indeed be a better choice. I see that the disagreement may come in deciding which contexts these could be and for what reasons.
    And as a reminder, I posted an example in which there's a clear difference between meaning conveyed by the past perfect and meaning conveyed by the simple past.

  3. #113
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    In some contexts the past perfect would indeed be a better choice. I see that the disagreement may come in deciding which contexts these could be and for what reasons.
    I could agree with that! :D

  4. #114
    Tdol is offline Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by konungursvia View Post
    And I would never consider Singlish to be "subpar" as Proesl has called it. It's a local flavour, that is all. Many things you hear there could very easily be adopted into other forms or international English, such as "my one" for "mine."
    The Singaporean news channel I get here in Cambodia is one of the few places where you can still here old-style plummy RP accents being used. The language is more formal than that of BBC World, and my partner (Japanese) finds it easier to understand.

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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by konungursvia View Post
    In all fairness, Bhaisahab is so gentle he would not be likely to do what you're thinking. In fact, if you re-read the whole bit, it looks like you're challenging his authority to give an opinion. You asked him to justify his contribution, and he answered basically that he based his opinion on his judgment, rather than on logic.
    I see. Well, I suppose words - and just words - may be open to two or more forms of perception. And speaking of that, I am well aware that words are not just words and that they can be open to two or more forms of perception.. In earlier threads and discussions, I believe I've displayed sensitivity in that respect, for example, by acknowledging the correctness of another poster's reply before posting mine. Sometimes others have done the same, and other times not. But that's just one example. I don't actually keep track, but I do know how I try - or can try - to communicate.

  6. #116
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    The Singaporean news channel I get here in Cambodia is one of the few places where you can still here old-style plummy RP accents being used. The language is more formal than that of BBC World, and my partner (Japanese) finds it easier to understand.
    The farther you get from Rome, the purer the Latin of the learned.

  7. #117
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    The Singaporean news channel I get here in Cambodia is one of the few places where you can still here old-style plummy RP accents being used. The language is more formal than that of BBC World, and my partner (Japanese) finds it easier to understand.
    But just one thing: I didn't call it subpar. I just accept such things, as, for example, I hear native speakers - smart ones - educated - use language in ways that I never would. For example, many are fond of saying "anyways". I'm not. And then many of the same get the noun clause thing wrong from time to time. With or without teaching English, these are not manners in which I woud naturally choose to speak. It might be a conscious decision if I did - or do.

    I'm not for bringing "dialects" into the ESL-EFL discussion as a matter of general speaking. I don't feel it has a place. There's no market for it. People want straight ahead, correct, and good English language lessons for business and work, not discourses on being tolerant of other people's "dialects" which may not be one of the main dialects spoken by native speakers in English-speaking countries. Regional and local styles take care of themselves.


  8. #118
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    But just one thing: I didn't call it subpar.
    After re-reading, now I can see that you didn't mean to, but were quoting our friend.

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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by lycen View Post
    Have you tried googling "I thought I have replied"? There are lots of entries for that too. I have seen many entries with "I thought I had replied" too.
    That doesn't follow with what the discussion is about because "I thought I have replied" is clearly an error made by an ESL speaker. Extremely infrequent would it be to hear even the least articulate of those native speakers lacking good language skills say something like "I thought I have replied". The reason is that such a combination of two clauses is clearly out of the range of natural native speaker syntax and structures which are learned in a natural way while acquiring English as one's first language.

    If you look at this search, it's starts with about 401,000 returns, which by the way pales in the face of the well over 6,000,000 returns for "I thought I replied".

    If you click to the next page, for some reason, we see that 401,000 turns into 18. Even on the first page, which is 401,000, it seems easy to identify the writing as non-native speaker writing.


    "I thought I have replied" - Google Search


    I would take this discussion as a matter of diverse viewpoints among native speaker ELTs. From there, I would observe native speaker usage by listening to the radio, watching films or movies, reading, having conversations - and whatever other way you find to gain exposure to native speaker usage. Take note of how the past perfect and siimple past are used. Ask yourself if one could be interchangeable with the other, and then try to justify why or why not. Draw your own conclusions.


  10. #120
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    Re: I thought I had

    Let's let sleeping dogs lie.

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