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  1. #71
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    It still looks like a lazy/rough approximation of "I thought I had replied".
    As lycen and konungursvia have already said.
    Are you saying that because they said it, it must be so?

  2. #72
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    Context given as part of the dialog:

    1. He says he didn't get my reply? I thought I replied to his email yesterday. It might have gone to his junk mail if he says he didn't get it.

    2. I thought I had replied to his email before he called yesterday afternoon. I guess he hadn't checked his email before calling again (this morning). You explained the deal to him, though, right? So he's all set. Good.

    With references to times and other events, we can see how one is not better than the other. Without these references, as isolated sentences, both are equally correct.
    This is what you gave. I don't see the bare "I thought I replied", what I see is "I thought I replied to his email yesterday" with a time adverb. For me it's just more natural and logical to say "I thought I had replied" instead of saying "I thought I replied" without any time adverb.

  3. #73
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by lycen View Post
    This is what you gave. I don't see the bare "I thought I replied", what I see is "I thought I replied to his email yesterday" with a time adverb. For me it's just more natural and logical to say "I thought I had replied" instead of saying "I thought I replied" without any time adverb.
    Right, I gave it context. I thought I replied yesterday. - This is correct. I thought I replied. - This is also correct. For you it may be more natural and logical, but in thousands of conversations among native speakers of English, people are saying things like "I thought I replied" without using a time adverb because the time, or when, is easily understood - implicit - within the context.

    I showed where and how "I thought I had replied" is a better choice by surrounding it with a bit of context. So far, once again, I've only read about "how something sounds" to someone. I haven't read any reasoning to support the idea that "I thought I had replied" is a better or more correct than "I thought I replied" as isolated sentences. I've shown how even in context that "I thought I replied" is correct by saying this: we do not need a time adverb - time indicator - with the simple past because the time, or when, can be easily understood or implicit within a context when someone says "I thought I replied". Many of the examples in this search use time adverbs. However, some of them do not, and it's because meaning is taken from the context and, therefore, understood by both speakers and listeners.
    Last edited by PROESL; 22-Sep-2009 at 18:13.

  4. #74
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    Right, I gave it context. I thought I replied yesterday. - This is correct. I thought I replied. - This is also correct. For you it may be more natural and logical, but in thousands of conversations among native speakers of English, people are saying things like "I thougth I replied" without using a time adverb because the time, or when, is easily understood - implicit - within the context.

    I showed where and how "I thought I had replied" is a better choice by surrounding it with a bit of context. So far, once again, I've only read about "how something sounds" to someone. I haven't read any reasoning to support the idea that "I thought I had replied" is a better or more correct than "I thought I replied" as isolated sentences. I've shown how even in context that "I thought I replied" is correct by saying this: we do not need a time adverb - time indicator - with the simple past because the time, or when, can be easily understood or implicit within a context when someone says "I thought I replied". Many of the examples in this search use time adverbs. However, some of them do not, and it's because meaning is taken from the context and, therefore, understood by both speakers and listeners.
    We do have subpar English standards called Singlish in Singapore and a similar Manglish in Malaysia. Some of the syntaxes we use in sentences are actually wrong in standard English (the one that's taught in grammar books), but their meanings can be easily understood or implicit within a given context. Does that mean that these are grammatically correct too? After all, they are localized colloquial forms of English. Isn't there a colloquial English among natives too? By the way, the first language and language of instruction of Singapore is English.
    Last edited by lycen; 22-Sep-2009 at 18:25.

  5. #75
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    Re: I thought I had

    "I thought I replied"

    If it's correct in context, or with a time adverb - time indicator - then it's correct as an isolated sentence. Would anyone like to say that there are a few million mistakes on posted on the Internet by native speakers of English? Would anyone like to say that a few million native speakers of English use English in a way that is something "less than correct"?

    To continue the argument that "I thought I replied" is less correct, or not as good, in some way, as "I thought I had replied", then it's tantamount to saying that there are a few million errors posted by native speakers of English on the Internert. It's plausible to presume that these native speakers are smart, intelligent, and articulate people. Does someone want to say that all of them, or even half of them, do not have language skills that are up to par? To continue this argument in favor the past perfect is tantamount to saying just that.

  6. #76
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by lycen View Post
    We do have subpar English standards called Singlish in Singapore and a similar Manglish in Malaysia. Some of the syntaxes we use in sentences are actually wrong in standard English (the one that's taught in grammar books), but their meanings can be easily understood or implicit within a given context. Does that mean that these are grammatically correct too? After all, they are localized colloquial forms of English. Isn't there a colloquial English among natives too?
    The subpar English standards you speak of are not relevant. I'm referring strictly to native speaker use of the language. I consider it a non sequitur to bring that in. That's not what this discussion is about.

  7. #77
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    "I thought I replied"

    If it's correct in context, or with a time adverb - time indicator - then it's correct as an isolated sentence. Would anyone like to say that there are a few million mistakes on posted on the Internet by native speakers of English? Would anyone like to say that a few million native speakers of English use English in a way that is something "less than correct"?

    To continue the argument that "I thought I replied" is less correct, or not as good, in some way, as "I thought I had replied", then it's tantamount to saying that there are a few million errors posted by native speakers of English on the Internert. It's plausible to presume that these native speakers are smart, intelligent, and articulate people. Does someone want to say that all of them, or even half of them, do not have language skills that are up to par? To continue this argument in favor the past perfect is tantamount to saying just that.
    I'm not saying the past perfect is better than the simple past. I'm ok with using the past tense, but I would place the time adverb so that it feels natural to me .

  8. #78
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    Are you saying that because they said it, it must be so?
    I'm sure he wouldn't be saying that. It's an illogical assumption. I'm sure he meant by "as they said,...." something you could also express with "what they said is what I think is correct."

  9. #79
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    The subpar English standards you speak of are not relevant. I'm referring strictly to native speaker use of the language. I consider it a non sequitur to bring that in. That's not what this discussion is about.
    Well, our first language is English. We learnt it from birth. Thus, your point is not valid to me.

  10. #80
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    Re: I thought I had

    Quote Originally Posted by PROESL View Post
    To continue the argument that "I thought I replied" is less correct, or not as good, in some way, as "I thought I had replied", then it's tantamount to saying that there are a few million errors posted by native speakers of English on the Internert.
    Yes, with hundreds of millions of users, there are indeed millions of errors. On the .... you know.... Internet.

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