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    • Join Date: Jun 2009
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    #1

    Exclamation Had him called \ Had him call Jim ????

    What is the difference in terms of grammar and in terms of meaning between the following:
    I had him called.
    I had him call Jim.

    Why do we use the past tense form of ( call ) in the first sentence, while in the second we use the present ?

    Please help me out, and thank you.


    • Join Date: Jul 2006
    • Posts: 2,886
    #2

    Re: Had him called \ Had him call Jim ????

    Forget the first sentence. It only exists in theory.
    Second sentence means he (=him) called Jim becuse you so influenced him.


    • Join Date: Jun 2009
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    #3

    Exclamation Had wash & Had washed !!!!!

    Thanks, but truly the sentence doesn't exist in theory.
    You use the same form in " I had the car washed "
    which is different from " I had Peter wash the car "
    In these two sentences is there any difference in term of grammar ?
    What about in meaning is there any difference ?

  1. bhaisahab's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: Had wash & Had washed !!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MIC85 View Post
    Thanks, but truly the sentence doesn't exist in theory.
    You use the same form in " I had the car washed "
    which is different from " I had Peter wash the car "
    In these two sentences is there any difference in term of grammar ?
    What about in meaning is there any difference ?
    The only difference is that in the second you name the person who washed the car for you.


    • Join Date: Jun 2009
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    #5

    Exclamation Had wash & Had washed !!!!!

    Thanks, but truly the sentence doesn't exist in theory.
    You use the same form in " I had the car washed "
    which is different from " I had Peter wash the car "
    In these two sentences is there any difference in term of grammar ?
    What about in meaning is there any difference ?


    • Join Date: Jun 2009
    • Posts: 15
    #6

    Exclamation Re: Had him called \ Had him call Jim ????

    O.K fine, but according to which grammatical rule do i change the verb in the first sentence from its past tense form to its present tense form?
    in other words why do i change the tense of the verb rather than keep it as in the first sentence?
    is it because i exposed the doer of the action?
    what grammatical rule do i use to prove it?

  2. bhaisahab's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: Had him called \ Had him call Jim ????

    Quote Originally Posted by MIC85 View Post
    O.K fine, but according to which grammatical rule do i change the verb in the first sentence from its past tense form to its present tense form?
    in other words why do i change the tense of the verb rather than keep it as in the first sentence?
    is it because i exposed the doer of the action?
    what grammatical rule do i use to prove it?
    "I had the car washed" and "I had Peter wash the car" are both past tense.


    • Join Date: Jul 2006
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    #8

    Re: Had wash & Had washed !!!!!

    Thanks, but truly the sentence doesn't exist in theory.
    You use the same form in " I had the car washed "
    Yes, but that sentence makes sense. It means "I arranged for my car to be washed". I had him called means 'I arranged for him to be called'. Hmm, okay, it sounds realistic.

    which is different from " I had Peter wash the car "
    It is, but what is your point with this?

    I had him called. (I do not like this sentence) -- I persuaded sy to call him -- sy called him
    I had him call Jim. -- I persuaded him to call Jim. -- he called Jim

    I had him called = SVOC
    I had him call Jim = SVOC

  3. Raymott's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: Had him called \ Had him call Jim ????

    Quote Originally Posted by MIC85 View Post
    What is the difference in terms of grammar and in terms of meaning between the following:
    I had him called.
    I had him call Jim.

    Why do we use the past tense form of ( call ) in the first sentence, while in the second we use the present ?

    Please help me out, and thank you.
    It's difficult to explain. The second sentence uses the bare infinitive "call". It's not the present tense.
    For example, you could substitute. "I got him to call Jim". In this case, you require "to", but it's still the infinitive, not the present tense.
    I asked (for) him to be called = I asked that he be called.
    I asked him to call Jim. = I asked that he call Jim.

    If you're naming a baby, you could say "I had him called Jim".
    (I decided that he (would) be called Jim).


    • Join Date: Jul 2009
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    #10

    Re: Had him called \ Had him call Jim ????

    Quote Originally Posted by MIC85 View Post
    What is the difference in terms of grammar and in terms of meaning between the following:
    I had him called.
    I had him call Jim.

    Why do we use the past tense form of ( call ) in the first sentence, while in the second we use the present ?

    Please help me out, and thank you.
    The first sentence is passive voice, and it uses causative "have". It sounds unusual because we most typically use causative have when speaking of assigning a job to someone or employing someone to do something. The second sentence, which is active voice, is more usual and natural sounding because you refer to the person that you are assigning the task to or giving the job to.

    I had my car repaired. - In this sentence, passive voice sounds typical because we know that a mechanic fixed the car.

    I had my house cleaned. - It's the same thing here. Passive voice sounds okay and typical here because we know that you hired a housecleaner to clean your house.

    I had him called. - Who called him? We can't imagine who called him. Anyone could've called him. Also, "calling someone" doesn't seem to be a task to assign to someone or a job to give to someone, as I see it.

    This is why, though grammatically correct, I would say sentence number one does not sound usual.

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