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    #1

    past perfect

    I'm having trouble deciding whether I should use the past perfect in the sentence below. The sentence compares two decisions: X and Y. X is a decision that came before Y.

    Furthermore, purely sporting interest was no longer deemed to have nothing to do with economic activity, but to be of a non-economic nature. And in contrast to X where it had been/was held that the provisions on free movement “do not affect” the composition of sports teams, in Y those provisions merely “do not prevent” the adoption of rules excluding players from participation in certain matches for reasons of sporting interest only.

    Thanks for the feedback.

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    #2

    Re: past perfect

    I vote for "had been" there. (In my opinion, you should use "was" for one time things like court decisions.)




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    #3

    Re: past perfect

    Can we visit the first sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasmin165 View Post
    Furthermore, purely sporting interest was no longer deemed to have nothing to do with economic activity, but to be of a non-economic nature.
    It was deemed to have nothing to do with economics, but it was non-economic?

    I can't imagine that's what you meant to say, is it?
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

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    #4

    Re: past perfect

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasmin165 View Post
    Furthermore, purely sporting interest was no longer deemed to have nothing to do with economic activity, but to be of a non-economic nature.
    I hadn't noticed how confusing that is until Barb pointed it out. The phrase "no longer deemed to have nothing to do with economic activity" means it does have something to do with economic activity, but that is something that can easily be missed. The sentence, in my opinion, should be rephrased. As it is, it is unclear what the writer means to say.



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    #5

    Re: past perfect

    RonBee: you should use "was" for one time things like court decisions.)


    But X (and Y) are decisions - that's why, when I read it, I rooted for 'was'.

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    #6

    Re: past perfect

    Quote Originally Posted by RonBee View Post
    I vote for "had been" there. (In my opinion, you should use "was" for one time things like court decisions.)



    Forget about the first sentence. Your reply is confusing: as Excalibur pointed out, X and Y are decisions, so I should use "was." The past perfect sounds better to me, though.

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    #7

    Re: past perfect

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasmin165 View Post
    I'm having trouble deciding whether I should use the past perfect in the sentence below. The sentence compares two decisions: X and Y. X is a decision that came before Y.

    Furthermore, purely sporting interest was no longer deemed to have nothing to do with economic activity, but to be of a non-economic nature. And in contrast to X where it had been/was held that the provisions on free movement “do not affect” the composition of sports teams, in Y those provisions merely “do not prevent” the adoption of rules excluding players from participation in certain matches for reasons of sporting interest only.

    Thanks for the feedback.
    The simple past seems correct to me.
    In contrast to X where it was held that A, Y holds B.

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    #8

    Re: past perfect

    I think that "had been" has the edge.


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    #9

    Re: past perfect

    Jasmin165: The past perfect sounds better to me, though.

    You have touched on one of the fundamentals of the English language: both are correct, and both provide information.....as to how YOU, the speaker, view the information you are imparting. Remember, as the listener, I may know very little about the history of all this. From the passage, it is as if, OK, decision X was made; and then this was altered, and so decision Y. OK, mistakes are made based on the information to hand at the time, people change there minds; and so decisions were made, done deal.

    You asked us which we would use. BUT... we do not know the details, the political shenanigans that may gone on over a period of time. The history preceding the actual decisions - first X, then Y ( what was going on here that the first decision was rescinded, and so then Y) - may be an important part of your thinking, and so, from your (the speaker's) perspective, Past Perfect would seem the automatic way of expressing your outlook on the issue.

    Remember: with all the grammar and vocabulary at your disposal, then it's all down to the way you (the speaker) view the particular situation/event you are talking about. As the listener, the use of the Past Perfect would alert me to the fact that there's more to this than what you have just told me...and my curiosity would be peaked! The use of the Simple Past presents cold, hard, objective fact: this happened, then that. Past Perfect alerts me to the process (over a period of time) leading up to this objective fact.
    Last edited by Excalibur; 13-Nov-2009 at 21:59.

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    #10

    Re: past perfect

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasmin165 View Post
    Forget about the first sentence. Your reply is confusing: as Excalibur pointed out, X and Y are decisions, so I should use "was." The past perfect sounds better to me, though.
    I voted for "had been" because it suggests a continuing thing, while "was" suggests a one time thing. (As for the text, additional context might help with comprehension.)


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