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    #1

    RP speakers, Not using True T sound, or is it just me?


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    #2

    Re: RP speakers, Not using True T sound, or is it just me?

    Have you noticed that all of the /t/'s come before /l/'s? There's a clue there.

    What you're hearing is a lateralized /t/, something like [tl].

    Note that, RP doesn't have a lateralized /t/ in its phonemic inventory.

    The sound you are hearing is purely phonetic: in anticipation of the following /l/ sound, the vocal apparatus prepares for /l/, making /t/ sound a wee bit lateral at the off-set/at the end.

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    #3

    Re: RP speakers, Not using True T sound, or is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    Have you noticed that all of the /t/'s come before /l/'s? There's a clue there.

    What you're hearing is a lateralized /t/, something like [tl].

    Note that, RP doesn't have a lateralized /t/ in its phonemic inventory.

    The sound you are hearing is purely phonetic: in anticipation of the following /l/ sound, the vocal apparatus prepares for /l/, making /t/ sound a wee bit lateral at the off-set/at the end.

    Thank you very much Soup for this explanation :) I am indeed aware of the /t/ before /l/, which is why im so interested to find out what sound is produced.

    I see you speak English too, do you pronounce those words this way, and if so, how does one make this sound?

    Once again, thankyou very much for this explanation, makes a lot more sence now : )


    lord Jenkins



    Edit:


    Aha! ive found a wiki page detailing this very question of mine:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_release_(phonetics)

    Its called a 'Lateral Release', where the speaker uses the tongue once for both /t/ and /l/.

    Thanks again to Soup for enabling me to find this
    Last edited by LordJenkins; 14-Nov-2009 at 18:55.

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    #4

    Re: RP speakers, Not using True T sound, or is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by LordJenkins View Post
    I see you're English too, do pronounce those words this way, and if so, how does one make this sound?
    Well, you know, I'm Canadian, which means I speak North American English (NAE).

    In North American English, all the <t>'s in your list, with the exception of the <t> in mental and dental, are pronounced as flap D. For example,


    bottle - bo[D]le <[D] sounds just like [d], but quicker>

    That dental and mental, which have a phonetically lateralized /t/, are exceptions has to do with what's sitting in the preceding syllable's final slot, also known as the coda. Compare:


    • men'[t]al
    • me'[D]al / me'[tl] <both are NAE>


    As you can see, the preceding coda in men'[t]al is filled by /n/, whereas it is empty in me'[D]al. Both forms, CVC'CVC (i.e., men'[t]al) and CV'CVC (i.e., me'[D]al), have primary stress on the vowel in the 1st syllable, which means stress isn't a factor determining /t/'s pronunciation. The determining factor appears to be the coda, and whether it's empty of filled:


    /t/ is realized as flap [D] or as [t] if the preceding coda is empty:

    • me'[D]al / me'[t]al

    That <t> in metal is pronunced with lateralization (i.e., me'[tl]) has to do with the phonological make up the lateral /l/: it's a liquid, you know, and as such is privy to vocalization, which in other terms means it is vocalic-- just like a vowel, you can sing it. The result is this: the 2nd vowel in metal is dropped and /l/ becomes vocalized: it takes the vowel slot.


    • metal is pronounced me'[tl] wherein [l] is vocalic, not consonantal.


    In short, when /l/ becomes vocalic its features bleed over to /t/, making /t/ sound lateralized. The process by which a sound takes on the features of an adjacent sound, specifically an immediately following sound, is called Regressive Assimilation:


    • /t/ becomes [tl] before [l]


    You may want to read this article: WHAT IS PHONOLOGY

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    #5

    Re: RP speakers, Not using True T sound, or is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by LordJenkins View Post
    Edit:


    Aha! ive found a wiki page detailing this very question of mine:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateral_release_(phonetics)

    Its called a 'Lateral Release', where the speaker uses the tongue once for both /t/ and /l/.

    Thanks again to Soup for enabling me to find this
    You're most welcome. My apologies: I didn't see your edit (above) until I after I (had) submitted my last posting.

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    #6

    Re: RP speakers, Not using True T sound, or is it just me?

    LordJenkins

    More clearly, the article WHAT IS PHONOLOGY discusses /t/ and /D/.

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    #7

    Re: RP speakers, Not using True T sound, or is it just me?

    Quote Originally Posted by Soup View Post
    You're most welcome. My apologies: I didn't see your edit (above) until I after I (had) submitted my last posting.
    No need to apoligise Soup, Ive not long made that edit so you wouldn't have seen it :)

    Thank you x1000000 for taking the time to explain this to me, you're my hero!


    Best Regards

    LJ

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