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  1. Raymott's Avatar
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    #11

    Re: Accompanied with or by?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmasny View Post
    Isn't it what I was talking about? My rule-of-thumb is to use by when I want to introduce an agent and with when I want to intoduce a tool (sensu lato). Someone can accompany me with something and I can be accompanied by someone. Isn't it right?
    Yes, but you're using the preposition in a different sense from what the original poster was asking about.

    You can certainly say: For my piano recital, Peter accompanied me with his violin.
    For my piano recital, I was accompanied by Peter with his violin.
    But you can't say: I was accompanied with Peter, or I was accompanied with a violin. (I believe).
    If you didn't want to mention Peter, you could say: I was accompanied by a violin.

    You can use almost any preposition after 'accompanied' if you make up a context.
    I was accompanied for $100 by Peter with his violin.
    I was accompanied through the evening.
    I was accompanied on my holidays.

    I was accompanied across the street.

    But in each case, when you get to the person or thing that is accompanying you, you must use 'by' - and I think is what Mehrgan was asking about.

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    #12

    Re: Accompanied with or by?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    But you can't say: I was accompanied with a violin.
    I think this sentence is the clou of my point. In my opinion this sentence is correct and means almost or exacty the same as I was accompanied by the violin. I think the latter treats the violin like an agent as is a kind of metonymy. Why couldn't I omit "by Peter" in a sentence I was accompanied by Peter with a violin? I don't see any theoretical reason (not that I know the theory so well ) I understand that native speakers are more likely to use "by" here, but why should the "with" usage be cosidered incorrect?
    I can say: I was beaten with a stick and I don't need to add by whom I was beaten.
    I can understand if you tell me that it's just wrong, because people consider it wrong. To me, it's more or less the definition of "wrong". I have many examples in my own language. There are many situations, where I don't have any general rule in my mind that would make a phrase incorrect, and yet I have a strong conviction that the phrase is totally wrong. But, as I see it now (and I believe I will be either assured or made see it differently), this is not a case of strong conviction, but some kind of a slight jar (I don't know if I can say that, I'm lacking the proper word).

    I know this is not what Mehrgan was asking. This is my own will of knowledge and discussion

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    #13

    Re: Accompanied with or by?

    hi there
    Please note I'm not a teacher nor a native speaker,
    Why couldn't I omit "by Peter" in a sentence I was accompanied by Peter with a violin?
    Even then I think it would be more correct "on violin"if he was playing it not just holding it ;)
    I was accompanied on violin by Peter,
    I was accompanied by Peter on violin,
    so If you want to omit "by Peter" it would be :

    I was accompanied on violin,
    It still sounds like something has been missed out ..

    Cheers
    Last edited by Jaskin; 19-Feb-2010 at 15:23.

  4. Mehrgan's Avatar
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    #14

    Re: Accompanied with or by?

    It sounds the preposition "by" is the most common form...thanks to all dear posters...

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    #15

    Re: Accompanied with or by?

    I have an example when I think I was accompanied with her would be correct. Say there's a ball and there's an authority who pairs people. Couldn't I say I was accompanied with my sister?

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    #16

    Re: Accompanied with or by?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmasny View Post
    I have an example when I think I was accompanied with her would be correct. Say there's a ball and there's an authority who pairs people. Couldn't I say I was accompanied with my sister?
    No, you can say "I was paired with my sister". "Accompanied with" is, if it's not wrong, extremely unusual.

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    #17

    Re: Accompanied with or by?

    I have not heard of accompanied with fiancee, either.

    The only way I could imagine the two words to make sense in a sentence is this......................

    The piano player was accompanied with great flair by an excellent trumpet player.

    But, I am not a teacher, so don't expect me to give you the reason.

  8. Raymott's Avatar
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    #18

    Re: Accompanied with or by?

    Quote Originally Posted by mmasny View Post
    I think this sentence is the clou of my point. In my opinion this sentence is correct and means almost or exacty the same as I was accompanied by the violin. I think the latter treats the violin like an agent as is a kind of metonymy. Why couldn't I omit "by Peter" in a sentence I was accompanied by Peter with a violin? I don't see any theoretical reason (not that I know the theory so well ) I understand that native speakers are more likely to use "by" here, but why should the "with" usage be cosidered incorrect?
    I can say: I was beaten with a stick and I don't need to add by whom I was beaten.
    I can understand if you tell me that it's just wrong, because people consider it wrong. To me, it's more or less the definition of "wrong". I have many examples in my own language. There are many situations, where I don't have any general rule in my mind that would make a phrase incorrect, and yet I have a strong conviction that the phrase is totally wrong. But, as I see it now (and I believe I will be either assured or made see it differently), this is not a case of strong conviction, but some kind of a slight jar (I don't know if I can say that, I'm lacking the proper word).

    I know this is not what Mehrgan was asking. This is my own will of knowledge and discussion
    Here is Merriam-Webster:
    accompany

    One entry found.

    Main Entry: ac·com·pa·ny

    Pronunciation: \ə-ˈkəmp-nē, -ˈkämp-; -ˈkəm-pə-, -ˈkäm-\
    Function: verb
    Inflected Form(s): ac·com·pa·nied; ac·com·pa·ny·ing
    Etymology: Middle English accompanien to make an associate, from Anglo-French accompaigner, from a- (from Latin ad-) + cumpaing companion — more at companion
    Date: 15th century
    transitive verb 1 : to go with as an associate or companion
    [In general, the 'with' function is already included in the meaning of the word.]
    I accompanied my sister.

    I went with my sister.
    I was accompanied by my sister (I was gone with by my sister - not a good sentence, but that's the meaning, not "*I was gone with with my sister")


    2
    : to perform an accompaniment to or for
    3 a : to cause to be in association <they accompanied their advice with a warning> This is probably the closest you will come to being able to use ‘with’.
    It can possibly be transformed to "Their advice was accompanied with a warning."
    But this is an American dictionary, and I’d question 3a.
    Here's a problem: If I arrange for my child, Peter, to walk to school with another child, Mary, have I accompanied Peter with Mary to walk to school (assuming I didn't go?)
    I'd say not.

    I guess we can say that it's acceptable in AmE to say "She accompanied her red dress with a yellow belt and handbag."
    But it sounds wrong to me.

    b : to be in association with <the pictures that accompany the text>intransitive verb

    R.
    PS: What's a clou? A key?

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    #19

    Re: Accompanied with or by?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymott View Post
    Here is Merriam-Webster:
    accompany

    One entry found.

    Main Entry: ac·com·pa·ny

    Pronunciation: \ə-ˈkəmp-nē, -ˈkämp-; -ˈkəm-pə-, -ˈkäm-\
    Function: verb
    Inflected Form(s): ac·com·pa·nied; ac·com·pa·ny·ing
    Etymology: Middle English accompanien to make an associate, from Anglo-French accompaigner, from a- (from Latin ad-) + cumpaing companion — more at companion
    Date: 15th century
    transitive verb 1 : to go with as an associate or companion
    [In general, the 'with' function is already included in the meaning of the word.]
    I accompanied my sister.

    I went with my sister.
    I was accompanied by my sister (I was gone with by my sister - not a good sentence, but that's the meaning, not "*I was gone with with my sister")


    2
    : to perform an accompaniment to or for
    3 a : to cause to be in association <they accompanied their advice with a warning> This is probably the closest you will come to being able to use ‘with’.
    It can possibly be transformed to "Their advice was accompanied with a warning."
    But this is an American dictionary, and I’d question 3a.
    Here's a problem: If I arrange for my child, Peter, to walk to school with another child, Mary, have I accompanied Peter with Mary to walk to school (assuming I didn't go?)
    I'd say not.

    I guess we can say that it's acceptable in AmE to say "She accompanied her red dress with a yellow belt and handbag."
    But it sounds wrong to me.

    b : to be in association with <the pictures that accompany the text>intransitive verb

    R.
    PS: What's a clou? A key?
    Thank you very much for your effort! Very kind of you. I would never think it can sound wrong, so it's not only a theoretical issue but also a useful piece of advice.
    "Clou" is a French word that we use quite often in Polish. Don't you do that? I've just checked that it exists in English, but, as a matter of fact, it doesn't seem to be the favourite word of English speakers
    Here's the definition: clou: meaning and definitions &mdash; Infoplease.com
    It's a nail in French (literally).
    Last edited by mmasny; 21-Feb-2010 at 02:42.

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