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    #1

    Newbie needs help

    I am not sure where to begin. I have 2 sentences with which I would like assistance on analysis. Unfortunately, they are from a religious publication and therefore have religious content and therefore might not be allowed to be posted (?). I am not interested in discussing the subject matter in the sentences, so I have prepared a "non-religious" version which parallels the original. However, unless I have someone verify my version is identical in grammatical structure to the original, it will be of little benefit to discuss my version. Any help with where I should begin will be greatly appreciated. Thankyou for your time.

  1. Raymott's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: Newbie needs help

    Quote Originally Posted by pharmer View Post
    I am not sure where to begin. I have 2 sentences with which I would like assistance on analysis. Unfortunately, they are from a religious publication and therefore have religious content and therefore might not be allowed to be posted (?). I am not interested in discussing the subject matter in the sentences, so I have prepared a "non-religious" version which parallels the original. However, unless I have someone verify my version is identical in grammatical structure to the original, it will be of little benefit to discuss my version. Any help with where I should begin will be greatly appreciated. Thankyou for your time.
    You can send them to me in a private message if you like. I'll take a look at them.
    Or better yet, you could throw caution to the wind and post them here - as long as they aren't too blasphemous, and as long as you only want the grammar checked, it should be ok.

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    #3

    Re: Newbie needs help

    Quote Originally Posted by pharmer View Post
    I am not sure where to begin. I have 2 sentences with which I would like assistance on analysis. Unfortunately, they are from a religious publication and therefore have religious content and therefore might not be allowed to be posted (?). I am not interested in discussing the subject matter in the sentences, so I have prepared a "non-religious" version which parallels the original. However, unless I have someone verify my version is identical in grammatical structure to the original, it will be of little benefit to discuss my version. Any help with where I should begin will be greatly appreciated. Thankyou for your time.
    Hey, Arizona! It's good to see a neighbor!

    As long as you don't want to discuss the subject matter feel free to post your sentences here in the forum!

  3. Editor, UsingEnglish.com
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    #4

    Re: Newbie needs help

    There's no problem with this- feel free to post them as the questions are about the language not the subject matter.


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    #5

    Re: Newbie needs help

    Thanks to all. I will begin by posting the original, followed by my "copy" of the original. I would like to tweak my copy to be an exact representation of the original, but using a different subject.

    Original: (in speaking of the Trinity)
    Though it is not a Biblical doctrine in the sense that any formulation of it can be found in the Bible, it can be seen to underlie the revelation of God, implicit in the Old Testament and explicit in the New Testament. By this we mean that though we cannot speak confidently of the revelation of the Trinity in the Old Testament, yet once the substance of the doctrine has been revealed in the New Testament, we can read back many implications of it in the Old Testament.

    Copy: (in speaking of the improvisation solo)
    Though it is not a piece of music in the sense that the exact notes are printed in the score, it can be heard to bring out the theme, implicit in the first half of the piece and explicit in the last half. By this we mean that though we cannot hear the theme boldly revealed in the solo at the beginning, once the substance of the solo has been revealed in the latter half, we can hear many implications of it in the first half.

    There it is. Can we get my copy to be an exact replication grammatically/structurally?

    Much appreciated!
    Last edited by pharmer; 11-Mar-2010 at 19:28.

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    #6

    Re: Newbie needs help

    Quote Originally Posted by pharmer View Post
    Thanks to all. I will begin by posting the original, followed by my "copy" of the original. I would like to tweak my copy to be an exact representation of the original, but using a different subject.

    Original: (in speaking of the Trinity)
    Though it is not a Biblical doctrine in the sense that any formulation of it can be found in the Bible, it can be seen to underlie the revelation of God, implicit in the Old Testament and explicit in the New Testament. By this we mean that though we cannot speak confidently of the revelation of the Trinity in the Old Testament, yet once the substance of the doctrine has been revealed in the New Testament, we can read back many implications of it in the Old Testament.

    Copy: (in speaking of the improvisation solo)
    Though it is not a piece of music in the sense that the exact notes are printed in the score, it can be heard to bring out the theme, implicit in the first half of the piece and explicit in the last half. By this we mean that though we cannot hear the theme boldly revealed in the solo at the beginning, once the substance of the solo has been revealed in the latter half, we can hear many implications of it in the first half.

    There it is. Can we get my copy to be an exact replication grammatically/structurally?

    Much appreciated!
    pharmer, the meaning of your first sentence is unclear to me. How is it possible for an improvised solo to not be considered 'a piece of music'? It would make more sense to me if the sentence contained the word 'not', as in:"...in the sense that the exact notes are not printed in the score..."

    The rest of the paragraph looks fine to me.


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    #7

    Re: Newbie needs help

    You're absolutely right, I didn't catch that. There should be a "not" inserted. I edited my previous post now. How's that?

  5. Raymott's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: Newbie needs help

    Quote Originally Posted by amigos4 View Post
    pharmer, the meaning of your first sentence is unclear to me. How is it possible for an improvised solo to not be considered 'a piece of music'? It would make more sense to me if the sentence contained the word 'not', as in:"...in the sense that the exact notes are not printed in the score..."

    The rest of the paragraph looks fine to me.
    I disagree. It makes more sense without 'not' .

    A: It's not a piece of music in the real sense.
    B: What's the real sense?
    A: The real sense of "piece of music" is that the exact notes are printed in the score.

    You could use 'not' if it were written:
    Though it is not a piece of music, in that the exact notes are not printed in the score, ...




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    #9

    Re: Newbie needs help

    Quote Originally Posted by pharmer View Post
    Copy: (in speaking of the improvisation solo)
    Though it is not a piece of music in the sense that the exact notes are printed in the score, it can be heard to bring out the theme, implicit in the first half of the piece and explicit in the last half. By this we mean that though we cannot hear the theme boldly revealed in the solo at the beginning, once the substance of the solo has been revealed in the latter half, we can hear many implications of it in the first half.
    I assume now, this is an accurate copy of author "A". (If not, please suggest how to improve).

    So what I want to know, is "A" communicating with the language being used that:

    -The improv solo IS a piece of music?
    -The improv solo IS NOT a piece of music?
    -The improv solo IS and IS NOT a piece of music?

  6. Raymott's Avatar
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    #10

    Re: Newbie needs help

    Quote Originally Posted by pharmer View Post
    I assume now, this is an accurate copy of author "A". (If not, please suggest how to improve).

    So what I want to know, is "A" communicating with the language being used that:

    -The improv solo IS a piece of music?
    -The improv solo IS NOT a piece of music?
    -The improv solo IS and IS NOT a piece of music?
    It's ambiguous with or without 'not'. You have a problem with the referent of 'it'.
    You either mean:
    An improvised solo is not a piece of music in the sense that, in 'a piece of music', the exact notes are printed in the score ...
    or:
    An improvised solo is not a piece of music in the sense that, in 'an improvised solo', the exact notes are not printed in the score ...

    From there, you can go on to give the senses in which it is a piece of music, or you can continue along with the theme that it is not a piece of music.

    I would rephrase it to avoid the ambiguity. But I'm not sure about the rules you've imposed upon yourself for the project.

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