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    #1

    comma

    I'm wondering whether there should be a comma before "David Plant":

    We took part in a mediation seminar at the University of X held by the famous international mediator David Plant.

    Thanks.

  1. ABDALLA ALI's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: comma

    i know that comma is used to separate between series of things and in compound sentences

  2. bhaisahab's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: comma

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasmin165 View Post
    I'm wondering whether there should be a comma before "David Plant":

    We took part in a mediation seminar at the University of X held by the famous international mediator David Plant.

    Thanks.
    I wouldn't use a comma. It's a matter of style rather than grammar.

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    #4

    Re: comma

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasmin165 View Post
    I'm wondering whether there should be a comma before "David Plant":

    We took part in a mediation seminar at the University of X held by the famous international mediator David Plant.


    Thanks.
    ***NOT A TEACHER***

    Good afternoon.

    (1) As I understand it, this practice of putting a title in front of a person's name was started by a magazine back in the 1920's or 1930's.

    (2) Until then, "proper" English called for: ...held by David Plant, the famous international mediator.

    (3) In any case, the "new" way is here to stay.

    (4) As I understand it, there should be NO comma.

    (5) A comma would imply that "David Plant" is an appositive of "the famous international mediator." In other words, that there is only one "famous international mediator."

    (6) Here in the United States, we have a super strict expert on English usage named John Simon. Here are some examples from one of his books: (a) The critic John Simon. (He is not the only critic.)
    (b)The English critic Max Beerbohm. (He is not the only English critic.)
    (c) The scenarist Penelope Gilliatt. (She is not the only scenarist.)

    (7) Of course, you would write: I read a book about the first president of the United States, George Washington. George Washington is only an appositive. There is only one first president of the United States. You could leave out Mr. Washington's name, and it would not matter -- grammatically speaking.

    (8) But suppose you wrote: ...held by the famous international mediator. People would ask: Which one? You would have to answer: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm referring to the famous international mediator David Plant, not the famous mediator John Doe, nor the mediator Jane Doe, etc.

    (9) Here in the United States we have three living ex-presidents. So you would say: Last night, I heard a speech by the former president of the United States William Jefferson Clinton. If you had used a comma, you would have implied that he was the only (living) former president of the United States.

    (10) Your question has raised another point. I think (only think) that you WOULD use a comma if you used the word "a" instead of "the." Let's see:
    We took part in a seminar held by a famous mediator, David Plant. In that case, you would use a comma because "David Plant" is in apposition with "a famous mediator."

    (a) If you dropped "David Plant," it would not matter. You just wanted people to know that you attended a seminar held by A famous mediator.

    (b) On the other hand, if you say: held by THE famous mediator, you have to name him if you have NOT already identified him.

    (c) For example, you could say this: David Plant has spent his whole life mediating disagreements. I never thought that I would ever have the chance to meet him. But last night -- to my astonishment -- I attended a seminar held by THE famous mediator. (You have already identified him.)

    (11) Thanks for your great question. It really made me have to think.

    Have a nice day.

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    #5

    Re: comma

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    ***NOT A TEACHER***

    Good afternoon.

    (1) As I understand it, this practice of putting a title in front of a person's name was started by a magazine back in the 1920's or 1930's.

    (2) Until then, "proper" English called for: ...held by David Plant, the famous international mediator.

    (3) In any case, the "new" way is here to stay.

    (4) As I understand it, there should be NO comma.

    (5) A comma would imply that "David Plant" is an appositive of "the famous international mediator." In other words, that there is only one "famous international mediator."

    (6) Here in the United States, we have a super strict expert on English usage named John Simon. Here are some examples from one of his books: (a) The critic John Simon. (He is not the only critic.)
    (b)The English critic Max Beerbohm. (He is not the only English critic.)
    (c) The scenarist Penelope Gilliatt. (She is not the only scenarist.)

    (7) Of course, you would write: I read a book about the first president of the United States, George Washington. George Washington is only an appositive. There is only one first president of the United States. You could leave out Mr. Washington's name, and it would not matter -- grammatically speaking.

    (8) But suppose you wrote: ...held by the famous international mediator. People would ask: Which one? You would have to answer: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm referring to the famous international mediator David Plant, not the famous mediator John Doe, nor the mediator Jane Doe, etc.

    (9) Here in the United States we have three living ex-presidents. So you would say: Last night, I heard a speech by the former president of the United States William Jefferson Clinton. If you had used a comma, you would have implied that he was the only (living) former president of the United States.

    (10) Your question has raised another point. I think (only think) that you WOULD use a comma if you used the word "a" instead of "the." Let's see:
    We took part in a seminar held by a famous mediator, David Plant. In that case, you would use a comma because "David Plant" is in apposition with "a famous mediator."

    (a) If you dropped "David Plant," it would not matter. You just wanted people to know that you attended a seminar held by A famous mediator.

    (b) On the other hand, if you say: held by THE famous mediator, you have to name him if you have NOT already identified him.

    (c) For example, you could say this: David Plant has spent his whole life mediating disagreements. I never thought that I would ever have the chance to meet him. But last night -- to my astonishment -- I attended a seminar held by THE famous mediator. (You have already identified him.)

    (11) Thanks for your great question. It really made me have to think.

    Have a nice day.
    What a remarkable post. Thank you.

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    #6

    Re: comma

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasmin165 View Post
    I'm wondering whether there should be a comma before "David Plant":

    We took part in a mediation seminar at the University of X held by the famous international mediator David Plant.


    Thanks.
    **NOT A TEACHER***

    Good morning.


    (1) I have just realized that I made an inexcusable mistake in my post when I said that there are three living former presidents of the United States.

    (2) There are four:

    Mr. James Earl Carter, Jr.

    Mr. George Herbert Walker Bush.

    Mr. William Jefferson Clinton.

    Mr. George Walker Bush.

    A million apologies.

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    #7

    Re: comma

    I thank YOU for your kind and generous comment.

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