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    #1

    will after conditional if

    Hi,
    I found this recently. It seems the thread wasn't treated very seriously, but I found it interesting. What do you think about the examples given by that user? I was taught to never use 'will' this way, but maybe there are exceptions?

  1. MASM's Avatar
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    #2

    Re: will after conditional if

    Quote Originally Posted by mmasny View Post
    Hi,
    I found this recently. It seems the thread wasn't treated very seriously, but I found it interesting. What do you think about the examples given by that user? I was taught to never use 'will' this way, but maybe there are exceptions?
    I've seen "will" used that way in what is called "mixed conditionals". As you know "will" is not only used to express the future tense. Sometimes it expresses volition: If you will do it, I'll help you. Determination or habit: If you will bet so much, you can't complain.

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    #3

    Re: will after conditional if

    Thanks for the reply.
    I learned mixed conditionals and they didn't show me any such sentence. Could you give an example?

    As for the volition part, the OP seems to have talked about the future 'will' specifically. He/she even specially stated it in the beginning of their post.

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    #4

    Re: will after conditional if

    Quote Originally Posted by mmasny View Post
    Thanks for the reply.
    I learned mixed conditionals and they didn't show me any such sentence. Could you give an example?

    As for the volition part, the OP seems to have talked about the future 'will' specifically. He/she even specially stated it in the beginning of their post.
    "This will happen, if you do that". Is it this structure that you are having a problem with?

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    #5

    Re: will after conditional if

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    "This will happen, if you do that". Is it this structure that you are having a problem with?
    Thanks for the reply.
    No, that's not it. I mean 'will' in the conditional clause (as in the thread linked above).

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    #6

    Re: will after conditional if

    I think there may be some confusion about whether the "If you will" is the precondition or the result.

    If I say that, you will get angry. - You will get angry - result.
    I will not say that, because you will get angry if I do.
    If you will get angry after I say this, I won't say it.
    If you'll get angry, I won't say it.

    No matter where the "If you will" is in the sentence, it's still the result, not the condition.

    Do you think that makes a difference in your understanding?

    The only time I feel comfortable using "If you will" as the condition is that "polite-will" -- Sir, if you will wait here just a moment, I'll let Mr. Smith know you've arrived. There's no real conditional here - just a polite structure that avoids saying "Wait here and I'll get him for you."

    Edit: Now that I've written this, I can think of other "If you will" phrases that sound okay to my ears at first, but they all sound better either as "would" or without the "will" -- except the polite ones (If you'll step this way... etc.).
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

  4. MASM's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: will after conditional if

    Quote Originally Posted by mmasny View Post
    Thanks for the reply.
    I learned mixed conditionals and they didn't show me any such sentence. Could you give an example?

    As for the volition part, the OP seems to have talked about the future 'will' specifically. He/she even specially stated it in the beginning of their post.

    If I have understood correctly what the poster says in your link, he/she is drawing attention to other uses of "will" expressing volition.

    Do you mean more examples of mixed conditionals with "will"?

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    #8

    Re: will after conditional if

    Quote Originally Posted by Barb_D View Post
    I think there may be some confusion about whether the "If you will" is the precondition or the result.
    Thanks for your reply!

    If I say that, you will get angry. - You will get angry - result.
    I will not say that, because you will get angry if I do.
    These are not sentences that I have in mind. They don't have 'will' in the if clause.
    If you will get angry after I say this, I won't say it.
    If you'll get angry, I won't say it.
    This is exactly it.
    No matter where the "If you will" is in the sentence, it's still the result, not the condition.

    Do you think that makes a difference in your understanding?
    I don't understand this question actually. What makes a difference in my understanding of what? I'm sorry, I sometimes have problems when I see sentences that are unlike Polish ones.

    The only time I feel comfortable using "If you will" as the condition is that "polite-will" -- Sir, if you will wait here just a moment, I'll let Mr. Smith know you've arrived. There's no real conditional here - just a polite structure that avoids saying "Wait here and I'll get him for you."
    I think this is the case of volition 'will' that MASM mentioned. Am I right?

    Edit: Now that I've written this, I can think of other "If you will" phrases that sound okay to my ears at first, but they all sound better either as "would" or without the "will" -- except the polite ones (If you'll step this way... etc.).
    I'd love to hear more of these etceteras (both polite and impolite)! This is a totally new thing to me that it's correct English. I mean, I heard polite "if you will", but only this.

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    #9

    Re: will after conditional if

    Quote Originally Posted by MASM View Post
    If I have understood correctly what the poster says in your link, he/she is drawing attention to other uses of "will" expressing volition.
    I think you understand it incorrectly. The poster says:
    in addition to 'will' used in the if-clause to express volition
    Which I think means that he/she wants to talk about non-volition 'will'. But anyway, I understand the thing when it's about someone's will. So we don't have to dig this
    Do you mean more examples of mixed conditionals with "will"?
    Yes, exactly. Ones with 'will' in the conditional clause please. I've never seen any, so I'm eager to learn what you're talking about.
    Last edited by mmasny; 29-Mar-2010 at 21:05.

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    #10

    Re: will after conditional if

    I may be barking up the wrong tree with my thoughts about the being the condition or the result. (Do you know that idiom?)

    I probably am. I know less about conditionals than I think I do about any other part of grammar. So just ignore me!

    Or "If you'll be so kind as to ignore me, I'll fade out of this discussion"
    I'm not a teacher, but I write for a living. Please don't ask me about 2nd conditionals, but I'm a safe bet for what reads well in (American) English.

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