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    #1

    otherwise=without

    It seems that "otherwise" in (1) refers only to "The program" and means "without / if it had not been for it"

    (1) The program has saved thousands of children who would otherwise have died. (MED)

    My question is about what (1) virtually means.

    (2) It is the program but not anything else that has saved thousands of children.
    (3) The progam has saved thousands of children, but without it, they would have died.

    I think both (2) and (3) work in place of (1).
    Do you agree?

    Any other possible paraphrase will be welcomed.

    Thank you in advance
    Seiichi MYOGA

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    #2

    Re: otherwise=without

    3- I'd use and rather than but as it's not a contrast.
    2 This seems to be overstating the case. It may be correct, but there may be other contributory factors involved- I think the 'not anything else' may be too exclusive, though it could be correct.

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    #3

    Re: otherwise=without

    Dear Tdol,

    I appreciate your help and comments.

    Can I ask you one last question?

    What is the reason or purpose in using "otherwise"?

    (4) The program has saved thousands of children who would otherwise have died.[=(1)]

    It seems to a non native speaker that either (5a) or (5b) will do.
    (5) a. The program has saved thousands of children.
    b. But for the program, thousands of children would have died.

    Why do you bother to mention both the presence and absence of the program (the mention of both seems to lead us to associate "the program" with the idea of "only" in some way)?

    Is it because you want to emphasize how important a role the program plays in saving children?

    Thank you in advance

    Seiichi MYOGA

    Actually, I had a bit difficulty understanding this part:
    3- I'd use and rather than but as it's not a contrast.

    I thought there was a contrast between indicative and subjunctive. But the second sentence is really putting it otherwise, so the two sentences mean virtually the same. That's why you prefer "and."

    Sometimes a seemingly small step needs a jump in understanding.
    Last edited by Seiichi MYOGA; 05-Jun-2010 at 04:21.

  1. chester_100's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: otherwise=without

    As Tdol indicated, the second one is unnecessarily emphatic.

    And can mean but sometimes:
    -Don't forget the warm-up exercises and (=but) avoid high intensity physical movements.

    Here are some variations:
    -If the children had not been saved by the program, they would have died.
    -Had the children not been saved by the program, they would have died.

    For a participle structure, we need three propositions:
    -The program, being initiated by the government, saved thousand of lives.
    -Saving thousands of children, the program was a complete success.

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    #5

    Re: otherwise=without

    Dear chester_100,

    I appreciate your help and comments.

    Some of your variations suggest that the presence of the quantifier "thousands of" makes a difference here.

    I think (6b) is just ungrammatical.

    (6) a. The program has saved thousands of children who would otherwise have died.[=(1)]
    b. The program has saved thousands of children. Otherwise they would have died.

    Or is it acceptable?

    Seiichi MYOGA

  2. chester_100's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: otherwise=without

    Quote Originally Posted by Seiichi MYOGA View Post
    Dear chester_100,

    I appreciate your help and comments.

    Some of your variations suggest that the presence of the quantifier "thousands of" makes a difference here.

    I think (6b) is just ungrammatical.

    (6) a. The program has saved thousands of children who would otherwise have died.[=(1)]
    b. The program has saved thousands of children. Otherwise they would have died.

    Or is it acceptable?

    Seiichi MYOGA
    Dear Seiichi MYOGA,

    I just changed the structure to come up with new sentences (paraphrase).
    There's nothing wrong with the sentences. They're both perfectly correct.

    Good luck,

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