since two months ago

[cic]

Is it correct to say "he has lived in this flat since two months ago"?

 

[mykwyner]

In the sense you're using it, the word since likes to be tied to a verb phrase. He has lived here since he graduated. I've been sad since you left.You can also used it with a noun of time. I've had this cold since Christmas. I've been ready since noon.

 

[Casiopea]

Additionally, use 'since' with specific dates & times (e.g., Monday, Yesterday, last week, 4:00, etc.), and use "for" with non-specific dates (e.g., three days, 6 months, years, hours, etc.).

Examples:
I haven't seen her since Friday. (specific date)
I haven't seen him for weeks. (non-specific date)

All the best,

 

[blacknomi]

I heard a sentence today and I didn't think it correct.

"How long have you been studying English before?"

"Before" feels uncomfertable there. :?:

 

[Steven D]

I heard a sentence today and I didn't think it correct.

"How long have you been studying English before?"

"Before" feels uncomfertable there. :?:

I agree. I wouldn't use "before" as a time adverb with the present perfect in that sentence, yet here it is at a site for an international school of English.

Did someone whose first language is English say it?

http://www.nzise.co.nz/enrol.html How long have you studied English before?

I would say: How long have you been studying English? There's no need to use "before".

How long had you been studying English before....... Before what:?: :?:

How long were you studying English before...... Before what:?: :?:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22how+long+have+you+studied+english+before%22+

Here it is again, but in the third person. I've read a few. The writers certainly meant "since" not "before". Why they said "before", I don't know.

The following sentence should be "had it been" or "was it", not "has it been". If the present perfect is used, then "since" should replace "before". Then the sentence would mean something else.

Is there a lot of combustion noise when under a load?
How long has it been before the pump was rebuilt or replaced?
What percent grades are you climbing? , etc...

http://www.ford-trucks.com/dcforum/diesel/611.html

 

[Steven D]

Is it correct to say "he has lived in this flat since two months ago"?

No, it's not correct.

This is correct: He's lived in this flat for two months. or: He's been living in this flat for two months.

Use "ago" with the past.

He lived in that flat 2 months ago. He moved.
___________________________________

Use "since" with the present perfect.

He's been living there since March. He's still there.

He's lived there since March. He's still there.
____________________

Use "for" with the past or the present perfect.

He's been living there for 2 months. He's still there.

He's lived there for 2 months. He's still there.

He had been living there for 2 months. He moved. He's not there now.

He lived there for 2 months. He moved. He's not there now.

He had lived there for 2 months. He moved. He's not there now.

 

[cic]

Is it correct to say "he has lived in this flat since two months ago"?

I have read the comments with interest. The answers were fine on a simple level of the use of since and ago but...

This has given us a great deal of mileage in class debate. Correct it must be if it is used by the University of Cambridge for a PET sentence transformation. The transformation is as follows:
He started living in this flat two months ago.
He has lived in this flat ........ two months ago.

The answer is SINCE. Hence "He has lived in this flat since two months ago" .Given the fact that it is from a Cambridge exam one can suppose that it is correct! I repeat!! But it has caused quite a few headaches.

Can anyone give me a plausible explanation for this use?
Thanks.
cic

 

[Marylin]

Well, this particular topic is really generating a lot of debate. And to be quite honest with you I haven't seen anything in grammar saying that since and ago can't be used in the same sentence. It sounds a bit awkward but I hear that use very often. In fact, I am almost used to hearing it all the time. Of course, we tell everyone that since ties with "two years" and ago will take on "two years ago".
X noticed that the same question can be easily changed to:
He has lived in this flat for two months.
Plain and simple.
But what if the person wants to give the sentence an exact point in time ( since 2 months and not two months and 3 days, two months and 3 weeks, etc) and at the same time we know it happend in the past (ago) then how else can we go about it? How else would you paraphrase a sentence like that without spreading yourself too thin? Can you do it all in one sentence? To me it's a quick shortcut between Past Simple and Present Perfect Tense.
Perhaps it's too much to cram into one sentence but grammatical or not, it's very common nowadays.

 

[mesmark]

I think your asking the wrong question. The question is "why is it correct grammatically?" or "Is it natural?" I believe it to be grammatically correct but not natural.

since is used here (present perfect) to define a specific starting point in the past and continues to the present. By adding the word ago you are defining the starting point (exactly 2 months ago,) therefore you can use since here (as Marylin stated.)

for is used to express a block of time, but doesn't refer to a specific starting point.

In most examples they can be used to express the same meaning.

1. I've lived in this apartment for 2 months.
2. I've lived in this apartment since 2 months ago.

If it's May, we generally assume both sentences to mean that the person has resided in the apartment since March. However, sentence 1 could mean that I lived in the apartment for 1 month in January and have lived there for another month starting in April. However, this is unlikely. Here is a better example.

I have studied Japanese for 3 years.
I have studied Japanese since 1999.

In this case I wouldn't use the second, because it implies I have studied Japanese for 6 years (starting and continuing to the present,) when in fact I began studying in 1999 and studied for two years. I stopped and began again a year ago.

As far as my "unnatural rating" of your example, it's just the long road and we generally wouldn't say it that way. That's why to us/me it sounds unnatural or awkward.

So, why is it correct? - because you defined the time in the past using ago.
Is it natural? - I would have to say it's not natural

 

[Steven D]

Well, this particular topic is really generating a lot of debate. And to be quite honest with you I haven't seen anything in grammar saying that since and ago can't be used in the same sentence. It sounds a bit awkward but I hear that use very often. In fact, I am almost used to hearing it all the time. Of course, we tell everyone that since ties with "two years" and ago will take on "two years ago".
X noticed that the same question can be easily changed to:
He has lived in this flat for two months.
Plain and simple.
But what if the person wants to give the sentence an exact point in time ( since 2 months and not two months and 3 days, two months and 3 weeks, etc) and at the same time we know it happend in the past (ago) then how else can we go about it? How else would you paraphrase a sentence like that without spreading yourself too thin? Can you do it all in one sentence? To me it's a quick shortcut between Past Simple and Present Perfect Tense.
Perhaps it's too much to cram into one sentence but grammatical or not, it's very common nowadays.

I hear what you're saying. But as you said, it sounds awkward. And to me it's too awkward. Although it is used, I wouldn't say it's in the mainstream of English language use. I would have to call it incorrect.

Instead of saying "since two months ago", I would name the specific point in time that refers to "two months ago". For example, it's now May 26. He's been living here since March 26. Or I would say "he's been living here for two months".

Here's a link to "since * * ago".

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22since+**+ago%22

So it's out there -people use it - as you say, but I find it disagreeable. I don't suspect and I don't believe that many people use it. I wouldn't describe it as a "correct form".

I would not advise anyone that "he's been living here since two months ago" is okay. It's not okay for me.

I say "mainstream" and not "standard" because there are just a few grammatical forms which I and many others say are okay, but the "standardists" simply insist they are "wrong". Fortunately, there are very few of these "standardists". We have to be practical and really consider what we say and what can say when telling ESL students what they can say and cannot say.

Well, this particular topic is really generating a lot of debate. And to be quite honest with you I haven't seen anything in grammar saying that since and ago can't be used in the same sentence.

That's an interesting point. It calls to mind a question: Does grammar account for everything that may or may not be said?

 

[Marylin]

We have to be practical and really consider what we say and what can say when telling ESL students what they can say and cannot say. [/color]

Well, of course. I wouldn't ask ESL students to comply with "my new rules". I haven't made any. It's just a plain observation on my part. Whether I like it or not, this new form of since and agois out there big time and has gained in popularity lately.
I don't know where it originates from but, regardless of its awkwardness, I can see some logic behind it.

That's an interesting point. It calls to mind a question: Does grammar account for everything that may or may not be said?

Isn't that what grammar is for?

 

[Steven D]

We have to be practical and really consider what we say and what can say when telling ESL students what they can say and cannot say. [/color]

Well, of course. I wouldn't ask ESL students to comply with "my new rules". I haven't made any. It's just a plain observation on my part. Whether I like it or not, this new form of since and agois out there big time and has gained in popularity lately.
I don't know where it originates from but, regardless of its awkwardness, I can see some logic behind it.

That's an interesting point. It calls to mind a question: Does grammar account for everything that may or may not be said?

Isn't that what grammar is for?

Yes, that's what it's for, but what about the question?

 

[Steven D]

We have to be practical and really consider what we say and what can say when telling ESL students what they can say and cannot say. [/color]

Well, of course. I wouldn't ask ESL students to comply with "my new rules". I haven't made any. It's just a plain observation on my part. Whether I like it or not, this new form of since and ago is out there big time and has gained in popularity lately. I don't know where it originates from but, regardless of its awkwardness, I can see some logic behind it.

Of course, I understand. But with the exception of my post, has anyone said "It is wrong. Don't say it. Don't write."? This is "ask a teacher" at an ESL/EFL forum. It seems that the original question was overlooked. The time adverbs were defined, but what about the question? Is it correct? The answer is: No, it is not correct.

Is it correct to say "he has lived in this flat since two months ago"?

No, that's not correct. There just might be those who want to say it's correct, but I would disagree with them.

I'm not sure of just how popular "since......ago" is.

 

[mesmark]

I have answered your question.

It is correct. You can argue that it sounds funny all day long but like I have said and Marylin has said since a few hours ago it is technically correct. Again you can argue that this is just a technicality but we will turn around and say, "So...." To the question "Is it correct? Can I say this?" the answer is YES.

To the question "Should I say this?" the answer is NO

We have all agreed that it isn't natural or it isn't something we would say or should teach, but it is technically correct.

 

[Marylin]

Of course, I understand. But with the exception of my post, has anyone said "It is wrong. Don't say it. Don't write."? This is "ask a teacher" at an ESL/EFL forum.

Exactly. This indeed was "Ask a teacher" question at ESL forum, X. Nothing to do with you X. I was just thinking out loud.
I agree with Mesmerk, I would stay away from using it but technically it does make some sense. :-D

 

[cic]

Many thanks for confirming what I maintained from the start but was finding difficulty in persuading my students.

Not incorrect ... but not advisable ... but perfectly logical if we take it as the starting point.

I'll have a more peaceful weekend. And a great one to you all too! And what a great discovery this forum is. Till the next time.
Regards
cic

 

[Casiopea]

University of Cambridge PET sentence transformation:

He started living in this flat two months ago.
He has lived in this flat ........ two months ago.

The answer is SINCE.

It is correct. Mind you, it's a transformation.

He started living in this flat two months ago.
Question: Since when did you start living in this flat?
Answer: Since two months ago.

=> 'two months ago' functions as an adverbial phrase. 'since' tells us it's connected in time to 'started living'.

We are looking at the architecture of the langauge, its mathematical code. Without the connection, though, the "context" 'started living', the sentence 'He started living in this flat *since two months ago', on it's own like that, is indeed semantically awkward. "for" is required in that enviornment, unless, that is, there is additional context to work from, which there was in this case, but was omitted.

Context is important. ;-)

 

[Casiopea]

Welcome, mesmark. :hi:

I used to live in Komagane, Nagano-ken. How's the weather up there these days?

 

[Casiopea]

As is, sans context, it's semantically awkward, agreed. Mind you, with context, which cic did provided, albeit in the second post, proves semantically meaningful. For example,

Friend: He started living in this flat two month ago.
Police Officer: Sorry. Since when?
Friend: Since two months ago.

There's a transformation strategy called Replacement. The 'Friend' replaced 'when' with 'two months ago'. That's the PET example.

 

[mesmark]

It's sunny and beautiful. Highs in the low 80's with a nice cool breeze.

Sakura have bloomed and gone, and the landscape is green. It's past grass cutting time but I'm going to wait and see if I can let it grow up past my shoulders. My son and I are going to have a wild hide and seek game in July.