desert and deserted

[greegorush]

Hello!

Could I use these words synonymously?

A desert island = A deserted island
A desert wood = A deserted wood

Is there any case where I have to use only deserted or desert (as an adjective)?

Thank you in advance!

 

[bhaisahab]

Hello!

Could I use these words synonymously?

A desert island = A deserted island
A desert wood = A deserted wood

Is there any case where I have to use only deserted or desert (as an adjective)?

Thank you in advance!

A "desert" is a barren or almost barren landscape, so "a desert wood" is not possible. A desert island is an island with little or no vegetation, whereas, a deserted island is an unpopulated island which may or may not be a desert island.

 

[IHIVG]

A "desert" is a barren or almost barren landscape, so "a desert wood" is not possible. A desert island is an island with little or no vegetation, whereas, a deserted island is an unpopulated island which may or may not be a desert island.

Interesting. I always thought that 'desert' and 'deserted' can be used interchangeably to mean 'uninhabited'/forsaken:

(From the dictionaries)
des·ert

• An empty or forsaken place; a wasteland

• Desolate and sparsely occupied or unoccupied <a desert island>

desert - definition of desert by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Desert - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

So we can use both desert and deserted when talking about places to mean 'unpopulated'. We can also use 'deserted' with people: deserted child/wife (abandoned, lonely);
We can't say, 'desert child'.

Do you think the definitions above are wrong?

 

[bhaisahab]

Interesting. I always thought that 'desert' and 'deserted' can be used interchangeably to mean 'uninhabited'/forsaken:

(From the dictionaries)
des·ert

• An empty or forsaken place; a wasteland

• Desolate and sparsely occupied or unoccupied <a desert island>

desert - definition of desert by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Desert - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

So we can use both desert and deserted when talking about places to mean 'unpopulated'. We can also use 'deserted' with people: deserted child/wife (abandoned, lonely);
We can't say, 'desert child'.

Do you think the definitions above are wrong?

No, the definitions are not wrong and they don't disagree with what I said before. A desert island, is not necessarily the same as a deserted island.

 

[IHIVG]

No, the definitions are not wrong and they don't disagree with what I said before. A desert island, is not necessarily the same as a deserted island.

But they can be the same, right?
Also, you seem to be disagreeing since you said that 'desert wood' is not possible.

 

[bertietheblue]

'desert island' means a remote tropical island that is typically uninhabited;
'deserted island' means an island which was inhabited but is no more.

So the meanings differ. 'Desert island' is idiomatic. 'Desert' is not used adjectivally in this sense in any other expression; instead, it means 'like a desert'. So 'desert wood' is not possible.

 

[IHIVG]

Strangely though, I've checked all the dictionaries I could possibly find and all of them say that 'desert' and 'deserted' can have the same meaning.
Go figure.

 

[euncu]

Strangely though, I've checked all the dictionaries I could possibly find and all of them say that 'desert' and 'deserted' can have the same meaning.
Go figure.

Maybe you should desert this desert stuff before you get more confused. :-D

 

[IHIVG]

euncu's talking Turkish, er... turkey.

 

[Raymott]

"Desert" is a noun. Its adjectival use is pretty much constrained to meaning desert-like, as in 6. below.
"Deserted" is only an adjective (or past participle).
So it's hard to see how most dictionaries can equate these two.


Desert | Define Desert at Dictionary.com
des·ert

1    /ˈdɛz

ərt/ Show Spelled[dez-ert] Show IPA
- noun
...

–adjective 6. of, pertaining to, or like a desert; desolate; barren.

7. occurring, living, or flourishing in the desert: a desert tribe; a desert palm.

8. designed or suitable for wear in the desert, as cool, protective clothing: a big, wide-brimmed desert hat.



de·sert·ed

   /dɪˈzɜr

tɪd/ Show Spelled[dih-zur-tid] Show IPA
–adjective 1. abandoned; forsaken: the problems of deserted wives and children.

2. untenanted: without inhabitants: a deserted village; a deserted farmhouse.

3. unfrequented; lonely: The victim was lured to a deserted spot.

 

[Raymott]

Strangely though, I've checked all the dictionaries I could possibly find and all of them say that 'desert' and 'deserted' can have the same meaning.

This is an extraordinary statement.
If you're interested in pursuing this, perhaps you could post some references.

 

[birdeen's call]

I have a question regarding this. Isn't it so that the adjectival use of the word "desert" meaning simply "desolate" (not "desert-like") has good etymological grounds? I mean that it's simply a past participle etymologically, so it seems natural to me that it can be used this way. It's not a proof obviously, but something that, together with what I can see in a dictionary, makes me suspicious when I hear that it should not be used to mean it.

PS This is from Merriam-Webseter:
1 : desolate and sparsely occupied or unoccupied <a desert island>

 

[Raymott]

I have a question regarding this. Isn't it so that the adjectival use of the word "desert" meaning simply "desolate"
Has this been established?

(not "desert-like") has good etymological grounds? I mean that it's simply a past participle etymologically ["deserted" is a past participle; neither 'desolate' nor 'desert' are.], so it seems natural to me that it can be used this way. It's not a proof obviously, but something that, together with what I can see in a dictionary, makes me suspicious when I hear that it should not be used to mean it.

PS This is from Merriam-Webseter:
1 : desolate and sparsely occupied or unoccupied <a desert island>

As a general principal, you can't say that a certain word can be used in a certain way based on etymology.

M-W gives that "desert" can describe something that is "desolate and sparsely occupied or unoccupied". It's a subtle point, but this is different from "the adjectival use of the word "desert" meaning simply "desolate".

 

[birdeen's call]

I think I've been misunderstood. I'm not saying that the etymology of the word proves anything about its current use. I'm just wondering.

It hasn't been estabilished that I can use the word "desert" to mean "desolate". I'm trying to find out whether it can or not.

I don't see why "desolate" should be used as a noun judging by its roots. It's also a past participle that evolved, so its being an adjective seems nice and simple to me. But this is off-topic.

I don't mean that "desert" is an English past participle. I know it isn't. But it has come from French, and it came as a past participle.

I don't understand the difference. What is it? Also I'd like to provide another defintion. It seems to say that "desolate" and "desert" can be synonymous.
2. Barren and uninhabited; desolate: a desert island.
from American Heritage.

 

[euncu]

euncu's talking Turkish, er... turkey.

I beg your pardon but I couldn't get what you said. Was this supposed to be a joke or something? I'll be glad if you explain what it means as well as what your intention was.

 

[IHIVG]

This is an extraordinary statement.
If you're interested in pursuing this, perhaps you could post some references.

I've already posted them a page back.
Please, look at the 3d post of this thread.

 

[bhaisahab]

I've already posted them a page back.
Please, look at the 3d post of this thread.

Those links do not say that "desert" and deserted" mean the same. "A deserted wood" yes, a wood devoid of human or animal life; "a desert wood" no, deserts do not have wooded areas.

 

[Raymott]

I think I've been misunderstood. I'm not saying that the etymology of the word proves anything about its current use. I'm just wondering.
Sure, I'm trying to help you solve the problem.

I don't mean that "desert" is an English past participle. I know it isn't. But it has come from French, and it came as a past participle.
And isn't that a good reason to say that you can't use etymology to determine how a word works?

I don't understand the difference. What is it? Also I'd like to provide another defintion. It seems to say that "desolate" and "desert" can be synonymous.
2. Barren and uninhabited; desolate: a desert island.
from American Heritage.

All I can say is that you can have a "desolate forest", but not a "desert forest".
The definitions in a dictionary are to help you understand a word; they do not imply exact synonymy.

 

[IHIVG]

I beg your pardon but I couldn't get what you said. Was this supposed to be a joke or something? I'll be glad if you explain what it means as well as what your intention was.

I believe the intention of your previous post "Maybe you should desert this desert stuff before you get more confused." was a mere play on words.
I decided to reply in kind.
There's an expression 'talk turkey', maybe you could check it out if you're not familiar with it.
I'm sorry you couldn't get it. Anyway, my intention was, as you said, no other than to make a joke.

 

[Raymott]

I've already posted them a page back.
Please, look at the 3d post of this thread.

You posted one. M-W doesn't give 'desert' as an adjective.
I'm not surprised that you found one dictionary where the one term was given as a definition of another. What surprises me is that you could find none that indicate a difference. I was hoping to understand that. But it's of no great importance.