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  1. #1
    panicmonger is offline Member
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    Smile stark naked

    Hi, hello everyone. Could you help me on this question? There are 2 sentences below, the difference is the position of "naked".

    1. The naked prisoner often wandered around the jailhouse.
    2. The prisoner often wandered around the jailhouse stark naked.

    Personally I would consider the first "naked" an adjective of post-modifier, whereas I deem the second "stark naked" a subject complement.

    I would think so because I sense that the emphasis of the second sentence is on "stark naked" and we could only know when the prisoner are naked from the linking verb "wandered" in this case.

    However, I am not sure of it. Could you reassure me?
    Thank you.

  2. #2
    TheParser is offline VIP Member
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    Re: stark naked

    Quote Originally Posted by panicmonger View Post
    Hi, hello everyone. Could you help me on this question? There are 2 sentences below, the difference is the position of "naked".

    1. The naked prisoner often wandered around the jailhouse.
    2. The prisoner often wandered around the jailhouse stark naked.

    Personally I would consider the first "naked" an adjective of post-modifier, whereas I deem the second "stark naked" a subject complement.

    I would think so because I sense that the emphasis of the second sentence is on "stark naked" and we could only know when the prisoner are naked from the linking verb "wandered" in this case.

    However, I am not sure of it. Could you reassure me?




    Thank you.
    ********** NOT A TEACHER **********

    Hello.

    (1) I found your question so interesting that I had to reply.

    (2) The naked man wandered around the place.

    (a) I may easily be wrong, but I think most books call an

    adjective before a noun an attributive adjective.

    (b) You called it a post modifier. Doesn't post mean after? But it is not

    after the noun. I do not understand.

    (3) The man wandered around the place naked.

    (a) This sentence really fascinates me.

    (b) Here is what I think that I have learned about this kind of

    sentence. Many people do NOT agree:

    (i) wander is not a linking verb in this sentence. The "proof"?

    The man wandered around the place is a perfect sentence

    without the adjective. Usually a linking verb needs to be completed:

    Tom seems. What? Tom seems nice.

    Martha was. What? Martha was angry.

    This tastes. What? This tastes good.

    (ii) Naked does refer to the subject, but it is not necessary

    for a grammatically correct sentence. (Tom seems is not complete;

    The man wandered around the place is complete.)

    (iii) So some people have used the term quasi-copula (That is, it

    is something like a linking verb and something like a regular verb.)

    (iv) Here is the controversy: Some grammarians explain that the

    adjective naked modifies the verb wandered. Yes, adjectives usually

    do not modify verbs. But in this case, it does. The sentence =

    The man wandered around the place while he was naked. And, of

    course, while he was naked is an adverbial clause that modifies what?

    Answer: the verb.

    As I said, not everyone agrees with this analysis.

    Let's see what others say. Thank you for your great question.

  3. #3
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    Re: stark naked

    Quote Originally Posted by panicmonger View Post
    Hi, hello everyone. Could you help me on this question? There are 2 sentences below, the difference is the position of "naked".

    1. The naked prisoner often wandered around the jailhouse.
    2. The prisoner often wandered around the jailhouse stark naked.

    Personally I would consider the first "naked" an adjective of post-modifier, whereas I deem the second "stark naked" a subject complement.

    I would think so because I sense that the emphasis of the second sentence is on "stark naked" and we could only know when the prisoner are naked from the linking verb "wandered" in this case.

    However, I am not sure of it. Could you reassure me?
    Thank you.
    I am afraid I can't explain the nuances of post-modifier and complement. However, since no one has responded, I will at least say this.

    I suggest you drop off "stark" from your consideration, at least at the beginning.

    1. The naked prisoner often wandered around the jailhouse.
    This emphasizes the wandering of the prisoner, who we understand to always be naked.

    2. The prisoner often wandered around the jailhouse naked.
    This emphasizes the fact that the prisoner, who typically wanders around the jailhouse, often does so with no clothes on. The emphasis now is not on the wandering but on the fact that s/he is naked.

    The word "stark" simplifies adds intensity to the word naked.

    I hope that is useful -- and I hope as well that those with greater knowledge of those grammatical terms will add their wisdom.

  4. #4
    panicmonger is offline Member
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    Smile Re: stark naked

    Quote Originally Posted by TheParser View Post
    ********** NOT A TEACHER **********

    (iii) So some people have used the term quasi-copula (That is, it

    is something like a linking verb and something like a regular verb.)

    (iv) Here is the controversy: Some grammarians explain that the

    adjective naked modifies the verb wandered. Yes, adjectives usually

    do not modify verbs. But in this case, it does. The sentence =

    The man wandered around the place while he was naked. And, of

    course, while he was naked is an adverbial clause that modifies what?

    Answer: the verb.
    Thank you, TheParser.

    After reading your reply, I know your analysis is absolutely correct.
    And, your analysis has also helped me grash the nuances of post-modifier and complement thoroughly.

    It was the quasi-copula which I did not understand previously and caused me some misunderstanding.

    I agree with you completely.

    By the way, actually I wanted to type pre-modifier, but I always make typos when thinking and typing at the same time.
    Last edited by panicmonger; 21-Jul-2010 at 04:40.

  5. #5
    panicmonger is offline Member
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    Smile Re: stark naked

    Quote Originally Posted by kfredson View Post
    1. The naked prisoner often wandered around the jailhouse.
    This emphasizes the wandering of the prisoner, who we understand to always be naked.

    2. The prisoner often wandered around the jailhouse naked.
    This emphasizes the fact that the prisoner, who typically wanders around the jailhouse, often does so with no clothes on. The emphasis now is not on the wandering but on the fact that s/he is naked.
    Thank you, kfredson.

    I agree with you as well.

    At the same time, I would imagine that the "while he as" in
    "The man wandered around the place while he was naked"
    is an ellipsis.

    Therefore, it becomes "The man wandered around the place naked."

    Thank you.

  6. #6
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    BobK is offline Harmless drudge
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    Re: stark naked

    Enough already!!! Please stop saying 'post-modifier' everyone. It's a pre-modifier - or in traditional parlance (as The Parser wrote) an attributive adjective.

    b

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