[Grammar] Request, conditional

[birdeen's call]

I would be very grateful if you saw that I had my money transferred today.

Is this sentence OK? I'm not sure about "had". Maybe it should be "have"?

 

[emsr2d2]

I would be very grateful if you saw that I had my money transferred today.

Is this sentence OK? I'm not sure about "had". Maybe it should be "have"?

I would be very grateful if you could check that my money was transferred today.

I would be very grateful if you would see if I received my money transfer today.

 

[birdeen's call]

But I didn't mean "check" by the word "see". I meant "make sure"! Is it wrong?

 

[emsr2d2]

But I didn't mean "check" by the word "see". I meant "make sure"! Is it wrong?

I meant "make sure" by "check" as well!!!

However, if you still want to use "see" then you use it in the present tense.

I would be grateful if you would see that my money has been transferred today.

When we use "I would be grateful if" we don't follow it with the past tense, because we are basically saying that that we would be very happy if the other person does something that they haven't done yet.

I'd be grateful if you would open the window.
I'd be grateful if you would help me clean my apartment.

If you think that the person you're talking has already checked your money transfer, then you could say:

Did you check that my money transfer went through today? If you did, I'll be very grateful!

 

[birdeen's call]

Thanks! I still have some questions.

1. You changed "I have my money transferred" to "My money has been transferred". Why is it better?

2. I'm still not completely sure if we're saying the same thing. Do your sentences mean that the process of transferring money could have been completed already by now, and it's time to check if it actually is so? Or do they mean that the money is still were it was and I'm asking somebody to take care of the process of transferring it? I mean the latter.

My doubt comes from your sentence, "I would be very grateful if you would see if I received my money transfer today." I always thought "see if" meant simply "learn if it's so". Can it also mean "see that" or "take care"?

 

[emsr2d2]

Thanks! I still have some questions.

1. You changed "I have my money transferred" to "My money has been transferred". Why is it better?

2. I'm still not completely sure if we're saying the same thing. Do your sentences mean that the process of transferring money could have been completed already by now, and it's time to check if it actually is so? Or do they mean that the money is still were it was and I'm asking somebody to take care of the process of transferring it? I mean the latter.

My doubt comes from your sentence, "I would be very grateful if you would see if I received my money transfer today." I always thought "see if" meant simply "learn if it's so". Can it also mean "see that" or "take care"?

Before I try and answer those, what exactly is the situation with the money transfer?

1) Is the money being transferred into your account?
2) Is the money being transferred out of your account?
3) Is this an automatic transfer and you just want to check that it has happened?
4) Are you asking the person to make a transfer?

 

[birdeen's call]

It's a hypothetical situation. I'm asking somebody to supervise the transfer. I'm not sure if the word "supervise" is right here, but I believe it is. I mean this:

Please, do whatever needed to place this money in the other account. (Does it really matter if that account is mine? Why? Let's say both are mine.) I need my money there and I want you to take care of it.

I'm not sure what "make a transfer" means. Isn't it the bankers who make the transfer? I wanted my sentence more flexible. I'd like it applicable to both, bankers and a friend of mine who I give an authority to ask the bankers to transfer my money.

 

[emsr2d2]

OK, I think I get it now!!!

I would be very grateful if you would ensure that the money is transferred [to the other account] today.

Does that cover it?! :-D

 

[Nightmare85]

**Neither a teacher nor a native speaker.**

Would it also be correct to say ensured instead of would ensure?
I would be very grateful if you ensured that the money is transferred [to the other account] today.

Another example:
I will be very grateful if you say yes. :up:
I would be very grateful if you said yes. :up:
I would be very grateful if you would say yes. :down:

Is it the same case?

Cheers!

 

[birdeen's call]

OK, I think I get it now!!!

I would be very grateful if you would ensure that the money is transferred [to the other account] today.

Does that cover it?! :-D

Yes! That's exactly what I meant. Can you now explain why this is good and "I would be very grateful if you would see that I have my money transferred today" is worse or wrong?

**Neither a teacher nor a native speaker.**

Would it also be correct to say ensured instead of would ensure?
I would be very grateful if you ensured that the money is transferred [to the other account] today.

I also thought we could say that too. But emsr2d2 seems to say it's wrong...

 

[TheParser]

I would be very grateful if you saw that I had my money transferred today.

Is this sentence OK? I'm not sure about "had". Maybe it should be "have"?

********** NOT A TEACHER **********

Hello, Birdeen's Call.

(1) I do not know whether it is "correct," but I personally

would be comfortable with:

I would be very grateful if you would see to it that I have

my money transferred today.

Thank you

 

[Nightmare85]

TheParser, what do you think about saw instead of would see?
I would be very grateful if you saw to it that I have my money transferred today.:?:

Cheers!

 

[TheParser]

TheParser, what do you think about saw instead of would see?
I would be very grateful if you saw to it that I have my money transferred today.:?:

Cheers!

********** NOT A TEACHER **********

Hello, Nightmare.

(1) Thank you very much for your kind note.

(2) I would like very much to answer your thoughtful question, but there is

one problem: I do not have the confidence to answer it.

(3) Teacher EMSR teaches English, and she says in her post that

since I would be very grateful refers to the future, it would not be

logical to use the past.

(4) If other teachers do not join this thread, maybe you could start another

thread with a similar question. I am so eager to know the answer, too.

Thank you

 

[TheParser]

TheParser, what do you think about saw instead of would see?
I would be very grateful if you saw to it that I have my money transferred today.:?:

Cheers!

********** NOT A TEACHER **********

Hello, Nightmare.

(1) I have been "surfing the Web" (Is that how you young people say it?).

(2) I think that I have learned a few things that may bring us closer to

the answer.

(3) First, let's shorten the sentence for easier analysis:

I would be grateful if you would see to it./ saw to it.


(4) Are both would see and saw "good" English?

(a) I am now prepared to say: YES.

(5) If we reverse the order, we will notice that we are dealing with

the second conditional:

(a) IF you saw to it, I would be grateful.

(b) IF you would see to it, I would be grateful.

(6) Although both (a) and (b) are -- I think -- "good"

English, they both mean something different!!!

(7) (a) is the regular second conditional referring to the future.

That is, if you decided to see to it, I would be grateful.

For example, If you came to my party tomorrow, I would be happy.

But maybe you can't because you have to work. This second conditional

often refers to something that probably will not happen.

(8) (b) is different. If you would see to it is different. It is really a polite

request. It means please be nice enough to see to it.

(9) Therefore, I believe that the only "correct" answer is:

(I have reversed the order to make it clearer)

If you would see to it that I have [I think that have is correct]

my money transferred, I would be very grateful. = Please transfer

my money, and I will be very grateful.

(10) If you said If you saw to it .... that would be the regular second

conditional and it might mean that there is the possibility that you are

not going to see to it. But if you did see to it, I would naturally be grateful in that case.

(11) If you gave me a million dollars, I would love you forever. You

probably are NOT going to do that, but if you did, I would -- of course --

be thrilled. *** If you would give me a million dollars (you are super rich

and we are best friends. So I am asking for this favor, please), I would be

very grateful, and I would do anything to help you -- even marry your

unattractive daughter!!!

Thank you

 

[birdeen's call]

Thank you TheParser for your thorough reply! (To Nightmare's question, but maybe he isn't going to be mad at me?? ) I think it's all crystal-clear when it comes to the distinction between the second conditional and "if you would" requests.

I have one more question. You said you were more comfortable with "see to it that" than with "see that". I'm really curious about it. Emsr2d2 seemed not to like "see that" either. She hasn't yet answered my question, and although I hope she's yet to do it, I'd like to learn your reasons too.

 

[Nightmare85]

Wow, thank you very much!
I believe it is not easy, but it makes sense.

Yes, it's "surfing the web" although I enjoy to say "snowboarding the web" - but it's a joke.
(On a TV show they asked a guy what young people "do" in the web, and surfing was a funny choice )

birdeen's call, I'm not mad at anyone

Cheers!

 

[TheParser]

Thank you TheParser for your thorough reply! (To Nightmare's question, but maybe he isn't going to be mad at me?? ) I think it's all crystal-clear when it comes to the distinction between the second conditional and "if you would" requests.

I have one more question. You said you were more comfortable with "see to it that" than with "see that". I'm really curious about it. Emsr2d2 seemed not to like "see that" either. She hasn't yet answered my question, and although I hope she's yet to do it, I'd like to learn your reasons too.

********** NOT A TEACHER **********

Hello, Birdeen's call.

(1) I used to it because if (IF!!!) I understand my grammar, the

sense of your sentence is:

I would be grateful if you would see to it.

Of course, anyone reading that sentence would ask him-, herself:

What is it?

So you then add a noun clause that is in apposition with it and explains it.

And that noun clause is:

(that) I have my money transferred today.

I put that in parentheses because -- as you know -- that is often

only a formal and non-essential introduction to a noun clause:

Everybody knows (that) you are a serious student.

Thank you for starting this thread. I have certainly learned a lot.

 

[emsr2d2]

I have no problem with "see to it that" as that's a regularly used phrase when asking someone to make sure that something is done (though not in this context - see my last paragraph).

Please see to it that dinner's ready when I get home.
See to it immediately. It's urgent!

It is used in a more contracted form sometimes "See that you do your homework on time" etc.

However, if I was involved in something like a bank request, or other kind of financial transfer, I would be more likely to say "ensure" than "see to it" as "ensure" is more formal.

 

[birdeen's call]

It is used in a more contracted form sometimes "See that you do your homework on time" etc.

However, if I was involved in something like a bank request, or other kind of financial transfer, I would be more likely to say "ensure" than "see to it" as "ensure" is more formal.

Thank you! Now I'm finally convinced that "see that" is correct when used to mean "take care".

I am pretty sure I saw that contracted form "see that" in a book in some very financial circumstances. I don't remember where though, so I'll report back when I find it.

 

[birdeen's call]

OK, this is not the book I was looking for, but I found this:
[quote="A Healing Fire", Patricia Wilson]
"Of course, ma chère. Let me help you to your room. I will see that you are not disturbed until dinner and then you shall have a tray. You must stay in bed by all means."[/quote]This is a good example, because the speaking person uses formal language. In the book I read it was exactly the same. So I've never seen this construction in informal speech - except your, emsr2d2, example. After reading that book I was certain that "see that" was formal. So despite all that, "ensure" is more formal. Do I get it right?