whether vs. if

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sbrodsky

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Dera teacher,
what is rigth, what is wrong?

If I were late, he would have asked me what was (has/had been?) wrong.
If I were late, he would have asked me if (whether?) anything was wrong.

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emsr2d2

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Dear teacher,
what is right, what is wrong?

If I were late, he would have asked me what was (has/had been?) wrong.
If I were late, he would have asked me if (whether?) anything was wrong.

Thank you.

If I were late, he would ask me what was wrong.
If I had been late, he would have asked me what was wrong.

If I were late, he would ask me if anything was wrong.
If I had been late, he would have asked me if anything was wrong.
 

sbrodsky

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If I were late, he would ask me what was wrong.
If I had been late, he would have asked me what was wrong.

If I were late, he would ask me if anything was wrong.
If I had been late, he would have asked me if anything was wrong.

Dear teacher,
thank you for your reply.
But there is something that I still don't understand about the sentence
"If I were late, he would ask me if anything was wrong".
Does it mean that he would ask me ONLY if anything was wrong?
If I don't mean that, don't I have so say
"If I were late, he would ask me whether anything was wrong"?

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emsr2d2

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Dear teacher,
thank you for your reply.
But there is something that I still don't understand about the sentence
"If I were late, he would ask me if anything was wrong".
Does it mean that he would ask me ONLY if anything was wrong?
If I don't mean that, don't I have so say
"If I were late, he would ask me whether anything was wrong"?

Thank you

"Whether" usually refers to a choice between two things, so theoretically it would have to read "...would ask me whether anything was wrong or not".

Saying "if" doesn't mean that's the only question he asks.
 

Raymott

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Also, 'if' in " ... he would ask me if anything was wrong" has to mean 'whether'.
It can't mean, "If anything was wrong, he would ask me. If nothing was wrong, he wouldn't." The reason for this should be obvious.
 

shoaib 1

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I think the second 'if' in the sentence is equivalent to 'whether'
 

sbrodsky

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Also, 'if' in " ... he would ask me if anything was wrong" has to mean 'whether'.
It can't mean, "If anything was wrong, he would ask me. If nothing was wrong, he wouldn't." The reason for this should be obvious.

Has to mean whether? Why?
How about this?

He didn't ask me about money.
He would ask me if anything was wrong.

Here "if" means "only if". If you mean "whether", just use "whether" to avoid confusion.
I always thought that using "if" instead of "whether" is just kind of jargon.
Is it?

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Raymott

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Has to mean whether? Why?
Because it can only mean "if" or "whether" and I've shown how it can't have the primary denotation of "if".

How about this?

He didn't ask me about money.
He would ask me if anything was wrong.
Yes, that's a different scenario. We have to assume that he is in a position to know if something is wrong. He is actually going to ask something else if something is wrong. He's not going to ask whether something is wrong.

Here "if" means "only if". If you mean "whether", just use "whether" to avoid confusion.
I always thought that using "if" instead of "whether" is just kind of jargon.
Is it?
No, "if" is often used for "whether" and it's standard. If it were not, we would have these absurd conversations:

A: Can you tell me if my horse won?
B: OK.
A: [waits] ... Well did he?
B: No.
A: Well, why didn't you just say that??
B: I thought you only wanted to know if he won. He didn't win, so I assumed you didn't want me to tell you.

Thank you.
I thought the reason should be obvious, but I'll explain it.
The original example is quite different from above:
"If I were late, he would ask me if anything was wrong".
We are postulating that something might be wrong, leading me to being late, and that he would ask me about it.
However, he doesn't know if anything is wrong. And he can't ask me [if 'if' means if and not whether], since the only condition under which he can ask me, is if something is wrong - which he cannot know without asking.
This is a logical impossibility; it's a "Catch 22."
So, it has to mean, "
"If I were late, he would ask me whether anything was wrong".
 
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sbrodsky

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I thought the reason should be obvious, but I'll explain it.
The original example is quite different from above:
"If I were late, he would ask me if anything was wrong".
We are postulating that something might be wrong, leading me to being late, and that he would ask me about it.
However, he doesn't know if anything is wrong. And he can't ask me [if 'if' means if and not wether], since the only condition under which he can ask me, is if something is wrong - which he cannot know without asking.
This is a logical impossibility; it's a "Catch 22."
So, it has to mean, "
"If I were late, he would ask me whether anything was wrong".

So your point is: if it does not lead to confusion, we can (have to) use "if" instead of "whether".
Then I have one remark and one question.
A remark. Even with my example ("If I were late, he would ask me if anything was wrong") I can build a situation when it causes confusion. (But I don't want to give you this example because it is too complicated.) That is why I never use "if" instead of "whether" because it is hard to say whether it could lead to confusion or not.
A question. If I never use "if" instead of "whether", could it sometimes sound weird. Could you please give me an example when using "if" instead of "whether" is definitely a better choice.
Thank you
 

Raymott

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So your point is: if it does not lead to confusion, we can (have to) use "if" instead of "whether".
We can; we don't have to.

Then I have one remark and one question.
A remark. Even with my example ("If I were late, he would ask me if anything was wrong") I can build a situation when it causes confusion.
Yes, you could. It would be easy to write a sentence in which it is not clear whether "if" means "if" or "whether".

(But I don't want to give you this example because it is too complicated.) That is why I never use "if" instead of "whether" because it is hard to say whether it could lead to confusion or not.

A question. If I never use "if" instead of "whether", could it sometimes sound weird.
I can't think of an instance where it would sound weird or wrong using "whether" when you mean "whether".

Could you please give me an example when using "if" instead of "whether" is definitely a better choice.
Not just off hand.

Thank you
In colloquial speech, "if" meaning "whether" is far more common than "whether". In all the following "if" means "whether", and "whether" is uncommonly used:

"Ask Dad if he's ready for lunch."
"Why not just ask him if he likes you?"
"I don't care if he likes vegetables or not; he has to eat them."
"I wonder if he drives to work or takes the train."

Even so, you can use "whether" for all those.
 

sbrodsky

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In colloquial speech, "if" meaning "whether" is far more common than "whether". In all the following "if" means "whether", and "whether" is uncommonly used:

"Ask Dad if he's ready for lunch."
"Why not just ask him if he likes you?"
"I don't care if he likes vegetables or not; he has to eat them."
"I wonder if he drives to work or takes the train."

Even so, you can use "whether" for all those.

OK, thank you. I understand everything about colloquial speech. (Even though, I was a little surprised with your #3 and #4).
What about formal and "semi-formal" (like fiction or travel books) writing?
Thank you for your help
 

Raymott

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OK, thank you. I understand everything about colloquial speech. (Even though, I was a little surprised with your #3 and #4).
What about formal and "semi-formal" (like fiction or travel books) writing?
Thank you for your help
Yes, even in fiction and technical books.
I would be more careful in academic or scientific writing.
I personally wouldn't write, "We still do not know if Marlow helped write some of Shakespeare's plays." But many academics would.
I think in legal contexts they might be more strict, but I'm not a lawyer. For all practical informal and formal purposes, "if" can be used for "whether" in cases like this.
 

sbrodsky

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chester_100

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Please express your opinion on that.
It's so important for me.
Thank you.

If it's so important to you, be prepared for some damn technical stuff:

If and whether are two very different syntactic entities.

1-In reality, if is a complementiser and whether is a interrogative adverb.
2-If can never be used to introduce an infinitive clause:I don't know if to take a rest.
3-If can never be used after prepositions:I'm certain about if I'll post the letters.
4-If can not be coordinated with not: If or not you open it.
5-You can use whether in all of the structures above.
 
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