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    #1

    causative

    Dear teachers,

    Instead of saying:

    a) I will have my car serviced (by the mechanic ?) this afternoon (by the mechanic ?).

    can I say :

    b) I will have / get the mechanic service my car this afternoon. (?)

    Many thanks,
    Hela

  1. #2

    Re: causative

    Quote Originally Posted by hela
    Dear teachers,

    Instead of saying:

    a) I will have my car serviced (by the mechanic ?) this afternoon (by the mechanic ?).

    can I say :

    b) I will have / get the mechanic service my car this afternoon. (?)

    Many thanks,
    Hela
    I will have my car serviced by the mechanic this afternoon.
    I will have my car serviced this afternoon.
    I will have the mechanic service my car this afternoon.
    I will get the mechanic to service the car this afternoon.


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    #3

    Re: causative

    Thanks Marilyn,

    So what's the difference between :

    a) I will have / get my car serviced this afternoon; and
    b) I will have (/get) the mechanic (to) service my car this afternoon?

    Are they both in the causative form ?

    And is there a nuance between "have somebody do something" and "get somebody do something"?

    All the best,
    Hela

  2. #4

    Re: causative

    Yes, they are causatives. The causative is very similar to passive. It uses auxiliaries (have and get), but here we focus on the fact that either something is done for you or someone does something for you or .

    SUBJECT + HAVE/GET something DONE

    I will have my car serviced this afternoon.
    I will get my car serviced this afternoon.

    Here you are not really interested in who's going to service your car.
    If you want to mention that, the sentence takes on a bit different meaning .You use another formula here;

    GET somebody/something TO DO something meaning you will persuade or manage to persuade that person to do something.

    I will get the mechanic to service my car. = I will ask him to do it for me.

    You can replace GET with Have and you'll get this:

    HAVE somebody/something DO something.


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    #5

    Re: causative

    So do you think that if we say "HAVE someone Do something for us" we imagine that they do / will do it without any hesitation or reluctance; whereas when we we say "GET someone TO DO something" it implies that the person will do it with some difficulty ?

    All the best,
    Hela

  3. #6

    Re: causative

    Quote Originally Posted by hela
    So do you think that if we say "HAVE someone Do something for us" we imagine that they do / will do it without any hesitation or reluctance; whereas when we we say "GET someone TO DO something" it implies that the person will do it with some difficulty ?

    All the best,
    Hela

    Good question!

    We imagine that they do / will do it without any hesitation or reluctance;

    Let's put it that way: we are not questioning it. It's how I perceive things to be taken care of. The causative "have" construction: HAVE + PERSON + DO STH is more like to let the person do something or give him the responsibility to do something. We assume ( we know) the person will do it and won't give us any trouble.


  4. Steven D's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: causative

    have someone do something - 1. hire someone to do something 2. ask someone to do something and assume that he or she will do it because you have the authority - ask someone to something and assume that he or she will

    get someone to do something - 1. ask someone to do something - convince someone to do something - request 2. ask someone to do something and assume that he or she will do it because you have the authority

    This is how "get" and "have" are generally used as causatives. However, actual usage by native speakers might contradict these general definitions.
    Last edited by Steven D; 19-Jun-2005 at 22:27.

  5. Casiopea's Avatar

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    #8

    Re: causative

    To me, and this is my idiolect speaking, not the Standard, 'have' someone do something feels more polite, whereas 'get' someone to do something has a range of meaning, from lightly persuade to force--make you do it.

    For example,

    They didn't fix my car! I'll get (i.e., make it a point to get) them to do it again.
    They didn't fix my cat! I'll have (i.e., make it a point to politely ask) them to do it again.

    That's my idiolect, though. The reason being, 'get' is new (centuries new), whereas 'have' is old-school, traditional. Traditional forms tend to be considered more formal, and hence my choices above.

    For most speakers today, though, causative "have" and "get" tend to be used as synonyms.

  6. Steven D's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: causative

    Quote Originally Posted by Casiopea

    For most speakers today, though, causative "have" and "get" tend to be used as synonyms.
    I don't think that's true. I think there's a difference in meaning and in how they are used, but they are also used interchangeably. I think this has everything to do with the context and how well the speaker knows the person he/she is talking about.

    have - The speaker probably has more control.

    get - The speaker may or may not have control.

    If you "have someone do something", you are hiring someone or giving someone an order to do something.

    I had Joe clean the carpet. - I hired Joe to clean the carpet. or - Joe cleaned the cleaned the carpet because I asked him to. He really didn't have much choice in the matter.


    I got Joe to clean the carpet. - This could mean I asked Joe to clean the carpet or I hired Joe to clean my carpet. It's possible that he had to do this because I asked him to, but not necessarily.


    The carpet really needs to be cleaned. - I'll try to get Joe to stop by tomorrow. He always does a good job.

    The carpet really needs to be cleaned. - I'll have Joe do it tomorrow. = I'm going to hire Joe or tell Joe to do it.

    I'll try to have Joe clean the carpet tomorrow. ----- ???? No, that's a very unlikely statement.

    I'll try to get Joe to clean the carpet tomorrow. - Yes, this is very likely. I'll ask Joe to clean the carpet tomorrow. It depends on his schedule.

    One can "try to get someone to do something". I think it's very unlikely that someone would "try to have someone do something".

    The tone of "have" and "get" are different. I think what a speaker uses has much to do with how he or she views the person he or she is speaking of. This is very subtle, but there is a difference. It depends on the speakers perspective.

    I had Sue drop us off at the train station. - Sue works for the speaker, or the speaker hired the driver.

    I got Sue to drop us off at the train station. - The speaker asked Sue to do this. It's also possible that the Sue works for the speaker or was hired by the speaker. It's also possible that Sue is a friend of the speaker.

    I'll have Sue drive us there. I'll see if I can have Sue drive us there. - The speaker is assuming that he/she can tell Sue what to do for some reason.

    I'll get Sue to drive us there. I'll see if I can get Sue to drive us there. - The speaker may or may not believe that he can tell Sue what to do.

    These underlying meanings have much to do with the context and the speaker's relationship with Sue.
    __________________________

    Let's see if we can get Joe to help us. We'll get Joe to help us. - We'll ask Joe to help us.

    Let's see if we can have Joe help us. We'll have Joe help us. - We'll tell Joe to help us.

    It is more likely that "have" used as a causative is an indication that the speaker can tell someone what to do or hire someone to do something. It's possible to use "get" as a causative in the same way, but one would not assume that with "get" the speaker can tell someone what to do. It depends on the context.
    Last edited by Steven D; 20-Jun-2005 at 14:40.

  7. Steven D's Avatar
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    #10

    Re: causative

    Others might see it this way as well, but you have to pay to read about it.

    http://eng.sagepub.com/cgi/content/short/31/2/125



    The study presented here centers on the causative verbs get and have. Within the framework of frame semantics and on the basis of corpus data, it is shown that the two verbs have a number of features in common but also present important differences.

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