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rita_b

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Hello,

I had taken those medicines for 2 1/2 years, until I experienced side effects.


Can I also write "I took those medicines for 2 1/2 years, until I experienced side effects."

Which one is appropriate and Why

Regards,

Rita



 

riquecohen

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Hello,

I had taken those medicines for 2 1/2 years, until I experienced side effects.


Can I also write "I took those medicines for 2 1/2 years, until I experienced side effects."

Which one is appropriate and Why

Regards,

Rita



The first sentence is grammatically correct, You´ve used the past perfect to indicate a time further in the past (when you took the medications) than the time in the more recent past when you experienced the side effects (and used the simple past.) The second sentence, while not correct, is the way many native speakers would put it (even relatively well-educated ones.)
 

Raymott

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Hello,

I had taken those medicines for 2 1/2 years, until I experienced side effects.


Can I also write "I took those medicines for 2 1/2 years, until I experienced side effects."

Which one is appropriate and Why

Regards,

Rita


The second sentence is
correct. It's also better; generally the past perfect is not used unless it's needed. "Until" is quite adequate to describe the time relationship between the tenses.
"I loved her until she left me."; "I slept until [it was] noon."



 

rita_b

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Thanks, but now i am more confused becoz of the answer given by riquecohen. Please clarify.

Regards,

Rita
 

Raymott

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Thanks, but now I am more confused because of the answer given by riquecohen. Please clarify.

Regards,

Rita
One thing happening before another is a necessary but not sufficient condition to mandate the use of the past perfect.
If A happens first, then B happens, you can say:
A happened, then B happened.
A happened before B. B happened after A.
B didn't happen until after A [had] happened.
None of these sentences need the past perfect. The past perfect is used in the last sentence if the speaker feels that the nuance is necessary - usually if A and B have some logical connection that needs stressing.
I think that riquecohen will modify his opinion once he's thought about it a bit more.
 
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riquecohen

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One thing happening before another is a necessary but not sufficient condition to mandate the use of the past perfect.
If A happens first, then B happens, you can say:
A happened, then B happened.
A happened before B. B happened after A.
B didn't happen until after A [had] happened.
None of these sentences need the past perfect. The past perfect is used in the last sentence if the speaker feels that the nuance is necessary - usually if A and B have some logical connection that needs stressing.
I think that riquecohen will modify his opinion once he's thought about it a bit more.
Thank you, Raymott. It appears that after all these years, I´m still learning. Therefore, the second sentence is correct.
 

rita_b

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HI,

[FONT=&quot]"The transplant was scheduled to happen way back in Nov’09 and that’s why I had approached all my friends , well wishers & relatives during Sept’09 for possible financial assistance as I was (& still am) unable to collect the fund for this huge expense. The response was good and I was overwhelmed with the love & affection bestowed on me by many friends. Unfortunately the donor absconded at the last moment and as may be you are aware that I’m following complete legal processes for getting the transplant done, I had to start again from the scratch."[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Regards,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rita
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Is it necessary to use past perfect or simple past will do?
[/FONT]







The second sentence is [/COLOR][/COLOR]correct. It's also better; generally the past perfect is not used unless it's needed. "Until" is quite adequate to describe the time relationship between the tenses.
"I loved her until she left me."; "I slept until [it was] noon."



 

Raymott

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HI,

[FONT=&quot]"The transplant was scheduled to happen way back in Nov’09 and that’s why I had approached all my friends , well wishers & relatives during Sept’09 for possible financial assistance as I was (& still am) unable to collect the fund for this huge expense. The response was good and I was overwhelmed with the love & affection bestowed on me by many friends. Unfortunately the donor absconded at the last moment and as may be you are aware that I’m following complete legal processes for getting the transplant done, I had to start again from the scratch."[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Regards,[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Rita
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Is it necessary to use past perfect or simple past will do?
[/FONT]
It's optional.
If a different tense was necessary every time you wanted to refer to more than one event in the past, the number of tenses needed would be infinite.

"The transplant was due in November, so I had asked my friends for money in October after I had had realised I was penniless in September because I had had had spent it all in August after I had had had had decided to go on a shopping spree."
We don't say this.
 

rita_b

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1) The main gate cost should be reduced, if it is decorated with the artificial flowers. the florist has given me the cost for fresh flowers. ----here what i wanted to say is that ' there is a function in November 2010 and the florist has given me the rates for gate decoration.

My question : Can i say "has given" or he gave me the cost for fresh flowers is also correct? since the function is not happened yet.........present perfect is related from past to present instances.

Please help. i know i am you irritating with all these questions............but i really want to master this language.

Regards,

Rita



 

Raymott

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1) The main gate cost should be reduced, if it is decorated with the artificial flowers. the florist has given me the cost for fresh flowers. ----here what i wanted to say is that ' there is a function in November 2010 and the florist has given me the rates for gate decoration.

My question : Can i say "has given" or he gave me the cost for fresh flowers is also correct? since the function is not happened yet.........present perfect is related from past to present instances.

Please help. i know i am you irritating with all these questions............but i really want to master this language.
No, you're not irritating me.

Yes, this is exactly the time you use a perfect tense.
There has to be some logical connection between the two events - which there is here. You know the cost will be lower, because the florist has already given you the price.
You know now, because something happened before and is completed at the index time. (They are not two unrelated events in the past.)
However, if you said, "The florist gave me the price, so I already know the cost will be lower" (all simple tenses), that's OK too, because you've explicitly explained the logical connection of one event to the other - with 'so'.

There are three perfect tenses, present perfect, past perfect, and future perfect. They all have this quality. You use them when you need to emphasize a connection between two events, not just that one happened before the other. But, there are other ways to say that one thing is dependent on another, so the perfect tenses are not always necessary.

I'll illustrate the past and future perfect with the adverbial phrase, "By the time ...", which does require a perfect tense, because it explicitly means that one thing will be completed before another happens.

Past:
"By the time he arrived, I had eaten lunch." (past perfect - right)
"By 2pm (past), I had eaten lunch."
* "By the time he arrived, I eat/ate lunch." Wrong.

Future:
"By the time he arrives, I will have eaten lunch." (future perfect - right)
"By 2pm (future), I will have eaten lunch."
* "By the time he arrives, I will eat/ate lunch." Wrong.

Present:
"He arrives now, and I have eaten lunch." (present perfect - right)
"It's 2pm, and I have eaten lunch."
* "He arrives now, and I ate lunch." Wrong.

I think I wrote something else about the perfect tenses, which I can't remember now. I'll try to find it.
 

Barb_D

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Thank you, Raymott. It appears that after all these years, I´m still learning. Therefore, the second sentence is correct.

I just wanted to take a moment to salute this post. I certainly make my share of mistakes as well, and hope that I"m as graceful in accepting a new perspective.

I wish more people -- on the forums and in life -- could say "Whoops! I was wrong."
 

rita_b

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Hello,

Again tense queries.....

He has been suffering from pain for the last one week or 2 weeks. He has got this pain from waist to toe ( the waist to toe ---should i use the article here ). He met with an accident twice ( is this sentence correct or i must use 'have' ---just like i have seen this movie twice). One is about 20 years back and other is very recent. He told me about the accident earlier ( is this correct or it would be ' had told me"). He consulted a doctor who had advised ( is had advised correct?) him to see a neurologist. It is one kind of arthritis. The doctor is saying that it might affect his married life. After consulting a neurologist he will tell her whether they should proceed further or not. He does not want to put her in trouble. he got an appointment with the neurologist next week ( is this sentence correct or have got an appointment next week is also correct).

Regards,

Rita

 

Pedroski

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Raymott, you have a good grasp of tense. This one is simple, but complicated. Someone who thinks he has a good understanding of tense/aspect told me it is ermm, future perfect, or was that perfect future. I told him the future is never perfect! What tense is this in your opinion?? Or is it tenseless??

I fly to London tomorrow.
 

Raymott

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Raymott, you have a good grasp of tense. This one is simple, but complicated. Someone who thinks he has a good understanding of tense/aspect told me it is ermm, future perfect, or was that perfect future. I told him the future is never perfect! What tense is this in your opinion?? Or is it tenseless??

I fly to London tomorrow.
I call that 'present tense with future meaning'.
A future perfect version would be "I will have flown to London [by] tomorrow."
But you are also good at grammar, Pedroski. What do you call it? :)
 

rita_b

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hello guys, please help me by answering my questions...

thanks,

rita
 

e2e4

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/A learner/

Hello,

I had taken those medicines for 2 1/2 years, until I experienced side effects.


Can I also write "I took those medicines for 2 1/2 years, until I experienced side effects."

Which one is appropriate and Why

Regards,

Rita




The sentence

I took those medicines for two and a half years until I experienced side effects.

in my opinion, is wrong.

The past continuous tense should have been used and not the simple past.

I was taking those medicines for two and a half years until I experienced side effects.


 
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e2e4

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I am sorry that I've forgotten to give an explanation.

Let me say what I think about this.

The past perfect tense is the past equivalent of the present perfect.

The present perfect doesn't care much when in the past something has happened but mostly what the consequences at the time of speaking are.

The same is with the past perfect tense.

When I arrived he had just escaped through the back door.

This should be perfectly natural sentence and in accordance with the Sequence of Tenses.

When I got aware of the side effects I realised that I had taken wrong medicines for two and a half years.

This should be OK as well.

I took those medicines for two and a half years until I experienced side effects.

I am not sure that taking those medicines is over now - there maybe no other medicines that can help even a bit - but for sure the side effects were happening all the time. The fact is that I wasn't aware of it only.

I can't use the simple past for two actions that were going in parallel in the past.

These were the reasons that I said that the sentence,'I took those medicines...' was wrong.

Is this too much complicated thinking about a simple sentence?
 
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Raymott

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[...]
I took those medicines for two and a half years until I experienced side effects.


I am not sure that taking those medicines is over now -
Yes you are. "I did A until B happened." means you stopped doing A when B happened.
there maybe no other medicines that can help even a bit - but for sure the side effects were happening all the time.
No, why do you assume that?
The fact is that I wasn't aware of it only.
No.
I can't use the simple past for two actions that were going in parallel in the past.
Wrong.
"I chewed gum while I walked to work."
"I jumped and shouted."
"I wrote until my hand hurt."


These were the reasons that I said that the sentence,'I took those medicines...' was wrong.
All your reasons are incorrect.
Is this too much complicated thinking about a simple sentence?
Sorry, but you're wrong. This sentence is good, as I've already explained.
 

Pedroski

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Tense throws me. Normally, you'd think verb forms indicate tense, not adverbs of time. Do we need a new rule: tense is indicated by the verb form unless there is an adverb present? Never mind, I'll read up on it!

Rita, a good Bengali girl is never impatient! Don't get tense!

He has been suffering from pain for the last one week or two weeks. He has got this pain from waist to toe ( the waist to toe ---should i use the article here No). He has only met with an accident twice in his life( is this sentence correct or i must use 'have' ---just like i have seen this movie twice). One is was about 20 years back and other is was very recent a short time ago. He told me about the accident earlier ( is this correct or it would be ' had told me"ok). He consulted a doctor who had advised ( is had advised correct? leave out had) him to see a neurologist. It is one He seems to be suffering from a kind of arthritis. The doctor is saying that it might affect his married life. After consulting a neurologist he will tell her whether they should proceed further or not. He does not want to put her in cause her any trouble. He has got an appointment with the a neurologist next week ( is this sentence correct or have got an appointment next week is also correct have got is not good).

He has got this pain from waist to toe. is a bit informal, imagine I am telling you. But if you are writing this as an exercise or even a report, use He experiences pain from waist to toe. Also try to use less 'He has' and 'he is' But consult BarbaraD on that! Variety the spice of life and all that!

What do you think: should he marry her anyway??
 
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Raymott

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Hmm ... Here's my opinion:

He has been suffering from pain for the last week or two. He has [STRIKE]got[/STRIKE] this pain from waist to toe. He has only met with two accidents in his life. One [STRIKE]is[/STRIKE] was about 20 years back and other [STRIKE]is [/STRIKE]was very recent - a short time ago. He told me about the accident earlier. He had consulted a doctor who advised him to see a neurologist.
This one is important. If you say, "He consulted a doctor who had advised him to see a neurologist", you're implying that this is at least his second visit, and it was on a previous one that he gave that advice.
Expressed the way I have it, it means that he consulted the doctor before he told rita about it.


[STRIKE]It is one[/STRIKE] He seems to be suffering from a kind of arthritis. The doctor is saying that it might affect his married life. After consulting a neurologist, he will tell her (Who is 'he' and 'her'? Is she the doctor?) whether they should proceed further or not. He does not want to put her in cause her any trouble. (Who is 'he' and 'her'? Is she the wife?) He has got an appointment with the [STRIKE]a[/STRIKE] neurologist next week.

What do you think: should he marry her anyway??
Um, is he planning to marry the doctor? Isn't he already married? How could his married life be affected if he's not married?
What do you think about this, Pedroski?
 
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