What are prepositions? How is Plus a preposition?

[alkaspeltzar]

I am particularly interested in how the word 'plus' is a preposition. In the example, "Two plus three equals five", according to my dictionary, plus is a preposition. How? Seems more like a conjunction.

And isn't the entire phrase "two plus three" the subject of the sentence, since that is what is equal to five? It is both the two and three together.

Thanks for the help in advance. I appreciate the explaination.

 

[SoothingDave]

Plus is a preposition in the sense that "plus three" is a phrase that modifies the subject of the sentence "two."

I agree that it seems like a conjunction and that "two plus three" could be considered a compound subject for the sentence.

I guess all models have their weak points and here I see one. The professional teachers may have some more insight.

 

[alkaspeltzar]

Okay, so I guess I somewhat understand that Plus is a preposition.

But now a bigger question, what is the subject or 'thing' in the sentence that is equal to five in the sentence "two plus three is five"?

ISn't it still "two plus three"?

Obviously, two is not equal to five. Nor is three. But it is "Two plus three" that is the thing equal to five, so it must be the subject of the sentence right?

 

[SoothingDave]

I am not a teacher.

I would say don't confuse logic or math with grammar.

If "plus" is a preposition, then "two equals five" is the sentence, stripped of its modifiers.

Think about it. If we said "two and three are five" we would have a compound subject. Note the "are" for the plural subject.

 

[alkaspeltzar]

what? That makes no sense.

How can the sentence be two equals five?

At the end of the day, everyone knows two plus three, is what is equal to five. So isn't that a subject then?

And why can't we have a compound subject that acts as one? There are many times in writing we say two things as one.

 

[SoothingDave]

I am telling you that in terms of grammar, "two" is the subject of "Two plus three equals five."

If "two plus three" was a conjunction, then it would be plural and we would say "Two plus three equal five."

But we don't.

"Two and three are five" -- "And" is a conjunction, "two and three" is the subject.

"Two plus three is five" --- "Plus" is a preposition, "two" is the subject.

Again, don't confuse grammar with logic. "The sky is yellow" is a perfectly grammatical sentence. So is "squirrels have feathers."

That doesn't make them true or logical.

 

[alkaspeltzar]

Here is why I don't get it, see the two definitions of Plus:
definition of plus from Oxford Dictionaries Online

plus - Dictionary definition and pronunciation - Yahoo! Education

Both say the opposite, and the second definition even says it is a conjunction, with a singular verb(See usage). That is why I don't get it. Logic should follow the grammar.

IF I said, "the dog of mine is running away"-subject is the dog
IF I said "Two plus three is five"- subject is more than just two.

How come the varying definitions? Is it one of those words that isnot concrete in it postion?

 

[SoothingDave]

I am not a teacher. I looked the word up and saw it was indeed considered a "preposition" in the way we are using it.

Maybe other dictionaries and grammarians categorize it differently. Remember, systems of describing parts of speech are models that attempt to describe language. They are not perfect.

It is clear that our choice of verbs indicates that the subject of the sentence is singular. So "two plus three" is not a plural subject. "Two and three" is plural.

So "plus" must not function in this example in the same way that "and" would.

I can't say it any other way without belaboring the point. Don't confuse grammar with mathematics. "Two equals five" is a perfectly grammatical sentence.

 

[corum]

Here is why I don't get it, see the two definitions of Plus:
definition of plus from Oxford Dictionaries Online

plus - Dictionary definition and pronunciation - Yahoo! Education

Both say the opposite, and the second definition even says it is a conjunction, with a singular verb(See usage). That is why I don't get it. Logic should follow the grammar.

IF I said, "the dog of mine is running away"-subject is the dog
IF I said "Two plus three is five"- subject is more than just two.

How come the varying definitions? Is it one of those words that isnot concrete in it postion?

(The value of) two and/plus two is five. -- The conjoins are 'two' and 'two'. Conjunction.

 

[alkaspeltzar]

Corum,
So plus can be both a preposition and a conjunction is what you are saying .

In this specific example, it is working as "AND" in the sentence to join 'two plus three" and that is why it is the subject.

 

[Pedroski]

Prepositions are always locative: in, on, about, against, even as = in the way, since = locative in time less = take away from plus = add to. In that way, as a form of 'to' plus can be a preposition.

I would say: '2 plus/and 3 is five.' but '2 and 3 are numbers.'

 

[lauralie2]

Obviously, two is not equal to five. Nor is three. But it is "Two plus three" that is the thing equal to five, so it must be the subject of the sentence right?

Yes! You are correct. The structure is as follows:

Two is a noun and it heads the noun phrase two plus three
plus is a preposition and it heads the phrase plus three
three is a noun and the object of the preposition plus

plus three is a prepositional phrase modifying two
Two plus three is a noun phrase and the subject of the sentence

is the verb
five is a noun

 

[philo2009]

Learners' confusion on this point is understandable: FORMALLY, 'plus' is indeed a preposition, making 'plus three' a prepositional phrase postmodifying 'two', the latter remaining, therefore, the sole subject of the verb (and - ironically perhaps - as a substantive numeral, a grammatically singular item).

INFORMALLY, however, we increasingly find the same word used as an emphatic additive conjunction, e.g.

"She chose me because I earn more than you, plus I'm better-looking!"


(@ Lauralie2: on a point of accuracy, prepositional phrases are classified as non-headed elements; thus the pr.phr. in question cannot technically be said to be headed by anything, although we might say that it is introduced by 'plus'.)

 

[corum]

Corum,
So plus can be both a preposition and a conjunction is what you are saying .

In this specific example, it is working as "AND" in the sentence to join 'two plus three" and that is why it is the subject.

Only conj.

Two plus/and two is four. 'Two and two' is one number expressed implicitly.

(I have an MSc in math)

 

[philo2009]

Prepositions are always locative:

More of the usual twaddle from Pedroski, to whose inability to recognize a copular verb we can, it seems, add an incapacity to distinguish 'time' from 'space'!

Locative prepositions are merely one category of preposition. Prepositions relating to time are classified (by proper grammarians, that is) as temporal, not locative.

There are other kinds, too, such as relational (e.g. 'about').

 

[alkaspeltzar]

okay, so from what I understand, there are different types of prepositions.

But back to the example at hand. When you have the sentence, "two plus three is five", the breakdown from a english standpoint it this:

Two is a noun and it heads the noun phrase two plus three
plus is a preposition and it heads the phrase plus three
three is a noun and the object of the preposition plus

plus three is a prepositional phrase modifying two
Two plus three is a noun phrase and the subject of the sentence

is the verb
five is a noun

This makes sense, This is correct yes or no?

 

[Abstract Idea]

----- Not an English teacher -----

This is a rather interesting thread.
Thanks to all posters above for your contributions. I have learned a lot by reading them.

I am particularly interested in how the word 'plus' is a preposition. In the example, "Two plus three equals five", according to my dictionary, plus is a preposition. How? Seems more like a conjunction.

And isn't the entire phrase "two plus three" the subject of the sentence, since that is what is equal to five? It is both the two and three together.

Thanks for the help in advance. I appreciate the explaination.

Many members have already given satisfactory answers.
I just would like to add that, in my opinion, you can interpret "plus" either as a preposition or as a conjunction.

preposition: Two plus three equals five = Two with three equals five = Two together with three equals five = Two "relating with" three equals five
conjunction: Two plus three equals five = Two and three equals five = Two together with three equals five

However, the conjunction interpretation does not function well if you try to substitute "plus" by "as well as":
Two as well as three equals five. This does not work.

I prefer the preposition interpretation.

okay, so from what I understand, there are different types of prepositions.

But back to the example at hand. When you have the sentence, "two plus three is five", the breakdown from a english standpoint it this:

Two is a noun and it heads the noun phrase two plus three
plus is a preposition and it heads the phrase plus three
three is a noun and the object of the preposition plus

plus three is a prepositional phrase modifying two
Two plus three is a noun phrase and the subject of the sentence

is the verb
five is a noun

This makes sense, This is correct yes or no?

In my opinion this is correct.

 

[philo2009]

Only conj.

Two plus/and two is four. 'Two and two' is one number expressed implicitly.

(I have an MSc in math)

Corum

Are you denying that 'plus' can function as a preposition in English??

 

[philo2009]

Well, Pedro, I await with glee your riposte to my previous post.

No doubt, in accordance with your norm, it will show no evidence of your having actually read the post at all, and will, to add insult to injury, imply that an argument on some quite unrelated topic has been taking place, such as phrasal verbs or the Zimbabwean economic crisis...

;-)

 

[lauralie2]

(@ Lauralie2: on a point of accuracy, prepositional phrases are classified as non-headed elements; thus the pr.phr. in question cannot technically be said to be headed by anything, although we might say that it is introduced by 'plus'.)

Could you direct me to the research on that. (I can't seem to find anything about it online.) Much thanks.