Ajectives precde nouns

[Othman]

Dear teachers

I have a question

I learnt and I was teached that the adjectives in the English Language always come before the Nouns

but while I was reading in a website a sentence came across me has a different context ( The areas covered are fairly predictable and not infinite so practise at home recording ideas onto a tape recorder.):roll:
I mean the area covered I think it's a different for me and what I learnt,
if I write it I will write it according to the rule I studied and I will write it as the covered area

:?:could you please explain me why does it come in this way?

Othman
yours sincerely

 

[lauralie2]

The areas (that are) covered <participle>

• "that are" can be omitted

_______________
Correction


I have a question.

I [have] learnt and was taught that adjectives in English always come before the noun, but while reading a website, I came across this sentence, The areas covered are fairly predictable. The word order in areas covered is different from what I learnt. If I were to write it, I would write it, "the covered area", according to the rule I learnt.

Could you please explain to me why it is written in this way?

 

[Rover_KE]

Correction


I [have] learnt and was taught that adjectives in English always come before the noun, but while reading a website, I came across this sentence, The areas covered are fairly predictable. The word order in areas covered is different from what I learnt. If I were to write it, I would write it, "the covered area", according to the rule I learnt.

Could you please explain to me why it is written in this way?

(Font enlarged for the benefit of those of us with ageing eyesight.)

Rover

 

[lauralie2]

(Font enlarged for the benefit of those of us with ageing eyesight.)

Rover

When in Rome ... Hold down the Ctrl key and the + key and the font size should increase.

 

[Rover_KE]

When in Rome ... Hold down the Ctrl key and the + key and the font size should increase.

Mmm...right. But when I do that the text disappears from the right and left margins.

 

[5jj]

When in Rome ... Hold down the Ctrl key and the + key and the font size should increase.

HELP!
I followed your advice, and was impressed with the result. Unfortunately, I got carried away, and repeated the process. I now have huge letters on the screen and don't know how to reduce them.
Please tell me how - but, even if you do it on this thread, do so also in a PM to me. I don't think I will be able to find this thread again while I am stuck with a giant font/

 

[5jj]

I have been saved.

A wonderful person called ~Mav~ sent me this:

"I've just come across your above post, and I hope I can help you. To get rid of those annoyingly large fonts, simply do the opposite you did before, and press <Ctrl> and - key! To reset to the default font size, press <Ctrl>+0. That works in all browsers, at least in theory.;-)
Alternatively, you might want to give a try to the Opera browser, which has a very convenient scroll-down menu in its menu bar for enlarging entire pages.

I hope to have been able to reply usefully. "

I love this forum for the way people are so helpful, not just in questions of language.

 

[Munch]

Even easier - hold down ctrl and spin the mouse wheel (the lumpy third button in the middle of the two big buttons.) The first thing I do when I go to a new website is to change the text size to suit my preference. It usually works for images, too. It works in almost all modern web-browsers and a lot of other applications too, like Microsoft Office.

If you don't have a scroll wheel on your mouse, think about getting a new mouse, because scroll wheels are really useful, if just for scrolling up and down the page.

fivejedjon, I am glad you were able to escape for your gigantic thread nightmare.

 

[lauralie2]

HELP!

Mav to the rescue! :-D:up:

____________
Sorry. I had logged out and so didn't see your message until now.

 

[Othman]

I did write this thread to ask about adjectives and I'm suprised the thread turned away from my topic and moved to eyes and font size any way thanx to all of you who visit my topic
never mind I will try to help too
you can enlarge font from the explorer itself from status bar choose zoom between zoom in and zoom out from 50% to 400%Special thanx to you lauralie2 let's back to my topic and I still have question

( The areas covered are fairly predictable and not infinite so practise at home recording ideas onto a tape recorder.)

the question is can it be the covered areas?​

 

[Munch]

“The covered areas” is grammatically correct, but it sounds like you are talking about an area that has a cover over it. “The areas covered” is much better.

 

[Raymott]

I still have question ​

the question is can it be the covered areas?​

Yes, it can.
"Use the given words to form a sentence" = "Use the words given to form a sentence".

But the adjective becomes more ambiguous if it is meant to come after the noun and is put before it. When it comes after the noun, it means "the areas that we covered" (or "that we will cover", or "that have been covered", etc).
That is, it is specifically a participial adjective (formed from the past participle)
It doesn't mean "the areas that are now covered" as an adjective before the noun would.

Example:
"The book used in this course is called English Grammar."
"The book used is called English Grammar"
"The used book is called English Grammar." - Wrong; it's not a used book.


By the way, your rule is obviously wrong. This is what I call a "beginner's rule" - one made for pedagogical reasons having only a tenuous bearing on reality. Teachers get away with them too often. They are like having learner wheels on your bicycle and not being told that one day you'll need to take them off.

PS: I agree with Munch. I didn't see his post before mine.

 

[Pedroski]

Adjectives can turn up all over the place, like adverbs.
The intelligent professor
I consider the professor intelligent (Short clause)
The man who we met yesterday is here again. Relative clause.
The man we met yesterday is here again. Reduced relative clause.
We have tried all possible means. We have tried all means possible.
The 10 0'clock study room reservation was cancelled.
The study room reservation at 10 o'clock was cancelled
'somewhere quiet' 'something nice'
Putting the adjective before of after the noun can radically change the meaning, as is the case in your sentence:
'The covered areas' is not always the same as 'The areas covered'
'The present shareholders' vs 'The shareholders present' 'A logical nothing' 'Nothing logical'

Which hotel would you choose if you saw two hotels and the signs outside read: 'free rooms' and 'rooms free'

I found this one:

Today's cars, gas-efficient, secure, economical and practical are better than ever

 

[Raymott]

Adjectives can turn up all over the place, like adverbs.
The study room reservation at 10 o'clock was cancelled
'Cancelled' is a past participle. I don't think it's functioning as an adjective, is it?

Today's cars, gas-efficient, secure, economical and practical, are better than ever
Comma -the adjectives before the verb are parenthetical.

R.

 

[Pedroski]

I don't think that calling something a past participle, or a present participle, precludes its use as an adjective. I think both participles are widely used as adjectives. Where do you think adjectiveness stops and participleness starts? Where will you draw the line?

The reservation was (not definite). The reservation was (cancelled).

Parenthetical or not, the adjectives describe the car. They could all together be moved to before 'cars'. I do have trouble with 'better than ever'. Is it an adjective or and adverb?

 

[Raymott]

I don't think that calling something a past participle, or a present participle, precludes its use as an adjective. I think both participles are widely used as adjectives.
No one could argue credibly with that. But you could argue against just any participle being called an adjective.

Where do you think adjectiveness stops and participleness starts? Where will you draw the line?

I'd look for some definitions of what an adjective is:
Adjective - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"In grammar, an adjective is a word whose main syntactic role is to modify a noun or pronoun, giving more information about the noun or pronoun's referent."
In this case, the main syntactic role of "cancelled" is not to modify the noun, but to complete the verb.