Weird US English Part 436

[Barb_D]

Yeah, I would think if I heard "Most anyone can do it" that it was 'most, short for almost, exactly the way Ray mentions 'cause as short for because, not as the word "cause" itself.

The latter pair is pronounced differently for me though - cuz/caws - unlike most/almost.

 

[timtak]

Dear Barb_D

Thank you. Is that the way it works - a contraction? I have no idea. Are you an AmE speaker? Are there many AmE speakers using this site?

As a contraction I can understand. But the above referenced website makes no mention of "most" being 'most (almost almost!) but rather contrasts the two suggesting that is only "most" that can predicate all, everyX, and anyX.

I am not sure what this "most...." means.

Considering

This is almost entirely unbelievable. (I very nearly can't believe it at all)
This is most entirely unbelievable. (Tautologically, "I certainly can't believe it at all", or as a contraction of almost, "I nearly can't believe it at all." Which?)

This is almost grotesque. (This is not quite grotesque, but very nearly.)
This is most grotesque. (This is extremely grotesque OR a contraction of the above, nearly but not quite grotesque?)

I feel that "most grotesque" is more grotesque than "grotesque".

When it comes to the use of most before "all" "everyone" "anywhere", I am not sure if "most" strengthens or mitigates.

Does, "Most all teachers think that this sentence is strange" mean, as a contraction perhaps, "almost all teachers" or "the (exceptionless, full, complete) entirety of the set of teachers think that this sentence is strange"?

 

[5jj]

It's wrong in BrE.

The Oxford ALD gives it as AmE, informal.

 

[Barb_D]

Thank you. Is that the way it works - a contraction? I have no idea.
Me neither. "Most everybody" to mean "almost everybody" in writing is almost inconceivable to me.
Are you an AmE speaker? You bet.Are there many AmE speakers using this site?A few, and most of use are upright, ambulatory, and self-nourishing.

As a contraction I can understand. But the above referenced website makes no mention of "most" being 'most (almost almost!) but rather contrasts the two suggesting that is only "most" that can predicate all, everyX, and anyX.
Seems odd to me too, and while I've lived in the eastern part of the country my entire sentient life, I'm pretty fluent in "Southern." The other parts of the country may have other dialects.

I am not sure what this "most...." means.

Considering

This is almost entirely unbelievable. (I very nearly can't believe it at all)
This is most entirely unbelievable. (Tautologically, "I certainly can't believe it at all", or as a contraction of almost, "I nearly can't believe it at all." Which?)
I expect the person who would write this means "almost." Otherwise it would be "Most of this is entirely unbelievable"

This is almost grotesque. (This is not quite grotesque, but very nearly.) That's how I read it too.
This is most grotesque. (This is extremely grotesque OR a contraction of the above, nearly but not quite grotesque?) But the "It was most strange" for "very strange" or "It was most colorful" for "very colorful" isn't a very common American construction in my experience. Used occasionally, sure, and universally understood, but not a spontaneous combination for many.

I feel that "most grotesque" is more grotesque than "grotesque". I do too.

When it comes to the use of most before "all" "everyone" "anywhere", I am not sure if "most" strengthens or mitigates. I think it's just informal and it means almost all.

Does, "Most all teachers think that this sentence is strange" mean, as a contraction perhaps, "almost all teachers" or "the (exceptionless, full, complete) entirety of the set of teachers think that this sentence is strange"?

I'm honestly surprised at the number of hits that it gets in writing. I'm sure I say things like "Most eveyone agrees," but if I thought about it (and I hadn't until now) it would be that 'most construction, a "cute" way to say "almost."

 

[5jj]

The latter pair is pronounced differently for me though - cuz/caws - unlike most/almost.

Interesting. I think that most English people use the same vowel sound in cos and because. In both cases it can move from [FONT=&quot]/ɒ/ towards /ə/ in conversation.[/FONT]

 

[Barb_D]

Does "We're looking into the cause of the crash" sound like the second half of because?

 

[5jj]

Does "We're looking into the cause of the crash" sound like the second half of because?

No. cause is [FONT=&quot]/kɔ:z/; because is [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]/kɒz/ [/FONT]

 

[Raymott]

Dear Barb_D

Thank you. Is that the way it works - a contraction? I have no idea. Are you an AmE speaker? Are there many AmE speakers using this site?

You can often get an idea of this by looking at the poster's profile, at the top right of each post. Barb's profile is most unambiguous.
I've found that most posters who give their country as USA, and their native language as English, do tend to use AmE.

 

[birdeen's call]

You can often get an idea of this by looking at the poster's profile, at the top right of each post. Barb's profile is most unambiguous.
I've found that most posters who give their country as USA, and their native language as English, do tend to use AmE.

But it still seems far from being a strict rule.

 

[Raymott]

But it still seems far from being a strict rule.

I haven't noticed; but I'm not that focussed on noticing differences between AmE and other Englishes.
Can you give me a few counterexamples - say people from US who speak/write AusE or BrE or some other variety?

 

[timtak]

Sorry, I had managed to overlook the profiles.

I've found that most posters who give their country as USA, and their native language as English, do tend to use AmE.

Could this be another difference between British/Australian and American English? In British and Australian English we use understatement, and phrases like "I have found that", and "do tend," for emphasis?

E.g.
Poster X: Is there anyone living in the USA?
Poster Y (from Britain or Australia): I have found that people who give their residence as "USA," in the their profile do tend to live in the USA.
Vs. perhaps,
Poster Z (from the USA): Please see the profiles at the top right of each post.

See also, for example, the wikipedia article on understatment
Understatement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Stings a bit."

 

[birdeen's call]

I haven't noticed; but I'm not that focussed on noticing differences between AmE and other Englishes.
Can you give me a few counterexamples - say people from US who speak/write AusE or BrE or some other variety?

I simply notice people who give their native language as English while it seemingly isn't. Some of them have "US" as their country. I believe they aren't really from the US.

 

[Raymott]

Could this be another difference between British/Australian and American English? In British and Australian English we use understatement, and phrases like "I have found that", and "do tend," for emphasis?

Quite possibly. ;-)

 

[Vidor]

not a teacher

AmE often acts as a conserver of older/original meanings of words now consigned in BrE to history.

See also "fall" as a synonym for "autumn" (and in fact "fall" is used more frequently).

I agree that teachers have to be at least partly prescriptive; the plural of child is children, not childs. That is an indisputable fact, and teachers must point this out.

As a non-teacher, I'd suggest that you should tread more carefully when the meaning is clear. Hard to see what it matters if someone says "different from" or "different than" when the meaning is perfectly clear.

Can you give me a few counterexamples - say people from US who speak/write AusE or BrE or some other variety?

I find it pretentious. Once knew a guy who would say things like "the queue for the restroom is long". Just read a baseball writer who used "bloody" in the British manner. Ugh.

 

[timtak]

Is fall older than autumn?

I find it pretentious. Once knew a guy who would say things like "the queue for the restroom is long".

What part of that sentence is pretentious? I'd say "The queue for the toilet is very long." "Restroom" sounds pretentious, or something.

Just read a baseball writer who used "bloody" in the British manner. Ugh.

You mean, like, "the catcher was bloody awful."? "Bloody" is a swear word so, I would not write it in a newspaper article or book.

As a non-teacher, I'd suggest that you should tread more carefully when the meaning is clear. Hard to see what it matters if someone says "different from" or "different than" when the meaning is perfectly clear.

I don't find the meaning of "different than" perfectly clear. If someone said, "I am different than you", I might think that they were saying that there were more different to others than I am different to others. Their meaning would not be clear.

 

[MiaCulpa]

I'm a "newbie" and am not sure I understand how postings are sorted in this thread yet, but I am responding to this snippet from a posting by timtak:

"Today I got an email from an American using the term "undergraduate advising." Had she been a student I might have advised her not to use the gerund when there is a perfectly good noun: advice."

In American academia, "advising" usually connotes curricular guidance by an official adviser--a role filled either by an assigned or chosen professor or by "advising" staff. Advice, on the other hand, may be given by anyone, but my experience is that mothers-in-law dispense most of it.

 

[MiaCulpa]

"Although a speaker of English myself, I tend to find it wise to think twice before criticizing American English, for two main reasons:

1. AmE often acts as a conserver of older/original meanings of words now consigned in BrE to history. One example that springs to mind is the use of 'guess' to mean 'think/suppose', which, far from a 'modern' invention or distortion, actually preserves a sense dating back to Middle English (I gesse, "I think", is common in Chaucer), whereas modern BrE "I reckon" originally meant "I count"!"

***

I suspect that AmE tends to conserve what are now older usages in BrE because of the pre-broadcast-era necessity of (horse-hoof-enabled) communication between communities in a progressively larger geographical area. Also, since some communities have been historically very isolated, occasionally much-older language forms become preserved regionally rather than becoming extinct--especially in remote mountain areas of the American South.

For example, in the Ozark mountains where I grew up, one can still hear the old affix, "a-" attached to contracted (or alveolar nasal?) progressive forms of certain verbs (which actually makes it a circumfix form, I think). One hears, "He's gone a-fishin'." People throughout the South still use certain well-preserved expressions, such as "He didn't know if he was (sic) a-comin' or a-goin'," or "He was just a-pickin' and a-grinnin'," (said of banjo or guitar players), but I'm not sure if the affix is in general use elsewhere in the South.

I've heard people from Scotland or Ireland use this form as well, so I'm not sure whether what is preserved here is from Scottish or Irish immigrants (a very common ancestry in the South), or if the older form also remains in Scotland or Ireland because of historically geographically isolated communities there as well.

 

[MiaCulpa]

What part of that sentence is pretentious? I'd say "The queue for the toilet is very long." "Restroom" sounds pretentious, or something.

Actually, the part of the sentence that sounds pretentious to the American ear is the word, "queue." We would say "line." "Restroom" is a euphemism, and the word, "toilet," used in this context, would cause some people in some parts of this country to cringe. The Puritan settlers of the seventeenth century still have some sway here, and the Victorian age still lingers in places. :-?

 

[Johnson_F]

I don't find the meaning of "different than" perfectly clear. If someone said, "I am different than you", I might think that they were saying that there were more different to others than I am different to others. Their meaning would not be clear.

I use 'different from', but I have no problem at all in understanding 'than' or 'to'.

 

[timtak]

What does
"I am more different than you"
mean?
Does it mean "I am more unique than you"? (this would be my interpretation)
Or "I am more different to you than some unspecified other person is"?