Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Ukrainian
      • Home Country:
      • Ukraine
      • Current Location:
      • Ukraine

    • Join Date: Sep 2010
    • Posts: 3,469
    #1

    When Keegan come around

    "De Wa: :ld spun ou:t. 'n he waited. (0.5) Al come around 'n passed him, Al was leadin' the feature, (0.5) an' then the second place guy, (0.8) an' then Keegan. An' boy when Keegan come around, he come right up into him, tried to put him into
    the wa:ll."

    This is part of a dialog from a Grammar text-book. My question would be about the tense used in the last sentence "when Keegan come around, he come right up in to him"? Is it because of an uneducated speaker?

  1. BobK's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Jul 2006
    • Posts: 16,038
    #2

    Re: When Keegan come around

    A grammar book? Not the grammar of Standard English. Judging from the attempt at transcribing the vowels in 'waald' and 'wa:ll' I'd guess it was the fashionable argot based on Jamaican Creole. In this case, all bets are off!

    But even in Standard English the historic present is possible; and native speakers use it widely in story-telling. Many jokes start 'This man walks into a bar...'

    b

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Ukrainian
      • Home Country:
      • Ukraine
      • Current Location:
      • Ukraine

    • Join Date: Sep 2010
    • Posts: 3,469
    #3

    Re: When Keegan come around

    Quote Originally Posted by BobK View Post
    A grammar book? Not the grammar of Standard English. Judging from the attempt at transcribing the vowels in 'waald' and 'wa:ll' I'd guess it was the fashionable argot based on Jamaican Creole. In this case, all bets are off!

    But even in Standard English the historic present is possible; and native speakers use it widely in story-telling. Many jokes start 'This man walks into a bar...'

    b
    That's where I got it from" Grammar in interaction
    Adverbial clauses in American English conversations
    CECILIA E. FORD
    Department of English,
    University of Wisconsin-Madisongot it form"

    I was saying that "when Keegan come" is not grammatically accurate. It should have been "when Keegan comes"?
    Last edited by ostap77; 25-Nov-2010 at 11:52.

  2. BobK's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • UK

    • Join Date: Jul 2006
    • Posts: 16,038
    #4

    Re: When Keegan come around

    Try rooting around, starting here: African American Vernacular English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . I wouldn't call it 'uneducated', but it's very different in every way (phonology, lexis, syntax...) from the English taught in schools. In this case, there is no s to mark the third pers. sing; and the way the verb is transcribed betrays the linguistic bias of the transcriber. It's not "He come' around", it's /i:m kɒmæraʊn/ (to give a rough approximation, using - inappropriately - the phonemes of English, with a home-made adjustment to mark the nasalizing of the final diphthong).

    b

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • Laos

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 57,833
    #5

    Re: When Keegan come around

    A number of regional forms of English can or do drop the -s on third person singular verbs.

    I am not very comfortable with the term uneducated. Ain't is a form that is often described as uneducated, yet many highly educated speakers use it. It seems to me to be judgmental of the person as well as the form.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • Poland

    • Join Date: Jul 2010
    • Posts: 5,098
    #6

    Re: When Keegan come around

    "Ain't" is uneducated because nobody ever educated it.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Ukrainian
      • Home Country:
      • Ukraine
      • Current Location:
      • Ukraine

    • Join Date: Sep 2010
    • Posts: 3,469
    #7

    Re: When Keegan come around

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    "Ain't" is uneducated because nobody ever educated it.
    You drop "-s" like "She don't care much about it."?

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • UK
      • Current Location:
      • Laos

    • Join Date: Nov 2002
    • Posts: 57,833
    #8

    Re: When Keegan come around

    She don't - you'll hear the form used in London and other places, though obviously it's a regional or non-standard usage and would be marked wrong in an exam and be regarded as an error in most contexts. In fact, it can be taken a stage further and you can come across forms like *She come in and I says to her....

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Polish
      • Home Country:
      • Poland
      • Current Location:
      • Poland

    • Join Date: Jul 2010
    • Posts: 5,098
    #9

    Re: When Keegan come around

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    She don't - you'll hear the form used in London and other places, though obviously it's a regional or non-standard usage and would be marked wrong in an exam and be regarded as an error in most contexts. In fact, it can be taken a stage further and you can come across forms like *She come in and I says to her....
    That's something I think I observe. I think you can come across "I says" and "she some" more frequently than "she say" and "I comes". Is there any truth in it?

  3. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,134
    #10

    Re: When Keegan come around

    Quote Originally Posted by birdeen's call View Post
    That's something I think I observe. I think you can come across "I says" and "she come" more frequently than "she say" and "I comes". Is there any truth in it?
    I certainly feel that I have heard I says more than s/he say. However, this is true of all first-person -s and third person zero endings, so I have also heard I comes more than s/he come.

    I have to add that I happen not to have lived in areas where third person zero ending is common, so others may report differently.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •