present result

[e2e4]

/A learner/

I've seen you.

It means nothing else except that I've seen you.;-)

When? Doesn't matter.
How old are you? Who cares?
Did you see me. Nobody knows.
Are you going to cinema tonight? No idea.
etc

I am only sure that you now know that I've seen you.

 

[Kudla]

Well, in fact you can´t even be sure of that as the person in question doesn´t have to believe you after all (just kidding, though it´s true)
Anyway I´VE SEEN YOU has little to do with a resultant state (reserved for resultative function). In fact, this example is what grammarians refer to as EXISTENTIAL (sometimes also EXPERIENTIAL) perfect and basically it telly us nothing more than in a period extending up to now some action has happened at least once: I HAVE BEEN THERE (once/several times/before...) - doesn´t talk about a result but a certain experience

 

[Raymott]

Well, in fact you can´t even be sure of that as the person in question doesn´t have to believe you after all (just kidding, though it´s true)
Anyway I´VE SEEN YOU has little to do with a resultant state (reserved for resultative function). In fact, this example is what grammarians refer to as EXISTENTIAL (sometimes also EXPERIENTIAL) perfect and basically it telly us nothing more than in a period extending up to now some action has happened at least once: I HAVE BEEN THERE (once/several times/before...) - doesn´t talk about a result but a certain experience

There are times when the present perfect is used precisely to indicate a current state, rather than a past experience:
A: Do you want to come and eat?
B: No, I've already had lunch, thanks.
B is primarily telling A that her current state is one of satiety.

A: I can't sleep. I'm worried that that snake is still around.
B: Don't worry. I've killed the snake.
B is primarily telling A that the present is snakeless.

So, how would you answer your original question?

 

[Kudla]

Well, I´m not saying there can´t be such sentences expressing resultant state, their certainly are, though their occurance is somewhat limited:
A: Do you want to come and eat?
B: Well, I've already had lunch, but I still feel a bit peckish/I don't mind having another one.
- here there is no resultant state at all
As for my original question I just wondered whether you rather feel it as past action or present result (state)

 

[Pokemon]

Well, I´m not saying there can´t be such sentences expressing resultant state, their certainly are, though their occurance is somewhat limited:
A: Do you want to come and eat?
B: Well, I've already had lunch, but I still feel a bit peckish/I don't mind having another one.
- here there is no resultant state at all

I believe you can say that the present perfect expresses a result in your sentence. The thing is that the present state of the speaker is linked to the accomplished action (have lunch) by the idea of concession.

 

[Kudla]

To be honest, I don´t believe it is the case in my example because the semantics of the present perfect is not to express a result but it shows that pre-present contains the situation time (the time at which an action happened) in terms of inclusion or coincidence. The resultative reading is only one of as much as 5 different readings and therefore the result is not a sine qua non for the use of the present perfect, which I suppose was cancelled by the BUT clause - therefore the resultative reading of I HAVE (ALREADY) HAD LUNCH was replaced by the existential one. The basic principle for this function to be applicable is the occurance of at least one action in the past. So we can say sth like:
[FONT=&quot]I’ve occasionally driven without my license[/FONT] - exist. reading as well as the question:
Have you seen the Javanese Art Exhibition yet? - no result, just asking whether he was there. The reason why the simple past is not used here is because here we want to convey the message that the exhibition is still open

 

[5jj]

Despite the length of this thread (27 posts and rising), there is a great deal of agreement. I think we all agree that the present perfect is a present tense, and that the situation (action, event, process or state) denoted by the present perfect verb began, if not ended, in the pre-present.

Pokemon’s suggested explanation of one sentence appears satisfactory: "The period of time during which the action has taken place isn't over yet’. […] Otherwise past simple would have been used.“ However, if it were to cover all uses of the present perfect has taken place would need to be changed to started.

The major issue appears to be slotting individual utterances into categories such as experiential, existential, resultative, etc.

I’ll just note three problems that will make complete agreement on the subject very difficult:

1. There may well be a good deal of category overlap in many utterances.
2. The categories themselves do not actually exist. They are simply labels created by grammarians attempting to explain situations in which the present perfect has been observed to be used.
3. To say why the present perfect is used in an utterance is possible only if we have the context. Take these two examples, for example:

a. I have done many exciting things in my life: I’ve climbed Mount Everest, I’ve sailed the Atlantic, I’ve watched Hockney paint and I’ve heard Chomsky lecture.

b. I think you misunderstand what writers on TG mean by ‘Surface Structure’. I’ve heard Chomsky lecture, and it is clear to me that the term means…

The two clauses in bold are identical in form, but if we are working on categories, then I think that that the present perfect in #a is experiential, and that in #b is resultative.


Another, less important problem is that I have been to is an idiomatic expression; have been conveys a meaning different from that of any other form of BE.

 

[Pokemon]

Yes, I think "experiential"(not "existential") is the right term for that type of present perfect.

 

[Kudla]

Actually, it depends. Some grammarians distinguish between these two while others consider them to be two names of one and the very same function.
I have been to - existential
I have been in - continuative
She have gone - resultative

 

[5jj]

Actually, it depends. Some grammarians distinguish between these two while others consider them to be two names of one and the very same function.
I have been to - existential
I have been in - continuative
She ha[STRIKE]ve[/STRIKE]s gone - resultative

It is difficult to judge without more context - see the third point in my previous post.

 

[Kudla]

Agreed, but in the case of I HAVE BEEN IN I think the continuative cannot be altered, not even by context. Or can you think of a context that would do so?

 

[5jj]

Agreed, but in the case of I HAVE BEEN IN I think the continuative cannot be altered, not even by context. Or can you think of a context that would do so?

I have been in prison too many times for me to want to take the risk again .

I am not sure what you mean by continuative, but I feel that my example, uttered by a former criminal who is turning down the chance to take part in a crime, is resultative.

 

[Kudla]

Ah, I see. I always thought that the difference between I HAVE BEEN TO/IN is that the former says that I have already returned while the latter is used when you are still at that place. But I can see now that it is not 100% true.
So it is my mistake.
Anyway, by the continuative I meant sth like:
I have lived here for 10 years now (I lived there before and I still live there now).
So I think that when it comes to irreversible/unalterable states the continuative reading cannot be cancelled.

 

[5jj]

So I think that when it comes to irreversible/unalterable states the continuative reading cannot be cancelled.

Living in a place is surely alterable.

Yes, I've lived in the Middle East, and I've lived in China, but my preferred place to live is the Czech Republic.

 

[Kudla]

True, but I didn´t suggest that the verb live is an unalterable state. I just presented an example in which the sentence receives the continuative reading so as to enlighten this term. An example of unalterable state receiving the continuative reading could be:
The cat has been dead for 2 days (as you cannot add but it no longer is - considering the pragmatics)