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  1. milan2003_07's Avatar
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    #1

    too much / far too much

    Hello,

    There is far too much staff here in this room

    There is too much staff here in this room

    What's the difference between "too much" and "far too much"?

    Thanks

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    #2

    Re: too much / far too much

    Hi,

    First of all the word is 'many' not 'much' and the verb person is 'are' not 'is'

    Then the difference is merely one of degree or emphasis. '...far too many' expresses a stronger point that just '...too many'.

    Regards

  2. milan2003_07's Avatar
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    #3

    Re: too much / far too much

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard1 View Post
    Hi,

    First of all the word is 'many' not 'much' and the verb person is 'are' not 'is'

    Then the difference is merely one of degree or emphasis. '...far too many' expresses a stronger point that just '...too many'.

    Regards
    I agree with "are", but I don't think "much" is wrong because "staff" can be used as an uncount noun.

    Do "too much/many" and "far too much/many" both mean there are more people than necessary or the room holds? "Far too much" only adds emphasis, doesn't it, and doesn't add anything to the total amount/number of people present?

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    #4

    Re: too much / far too much

    Hi

    Don't get too hung up on fringe areas of English like counted/uncounted nouns. I see reference to them on the internet but I can honestly say that I've never consciously ever considered them in all my 60+ years. Just believe me one would never say too much staff, it's just wrong.

    The phrases don't offer any comment on what is 'necessary' or how many the room should hold. They are just making the implied point that it's uncomfortable having so many staff, and yes 'far too many' just adds emphasis.

    Regards

  3. milan2003_07's Avatar
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    #5

    Re: too much / far too much

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard1 View Post
    Just believe me one would never say too much staff, it's just wrong.
    Please take a look at much staff -

    http://www.google.ru/search?hl=ru&ne...=&oq=&gs_rfai=

    Both seem to be used.

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    #6

    Re: too much / far too much

    Oxford and Longman say both sg and pl verbs are possible
    The entire staff has done an outstanding job this year.

    But Swan insists on regarding "staff" as a plural noun that takes a plural verb.
    (It's extremely difficult to learn a language when grammars and grammarians themselves cannot reach agreement)

    Perhaps in Milan's example it's more reasonable to view 'staf' as a collection of individuals rather than a sigle unit, therefore 'many' and 'are' may seem more appropriate there.

    There are far too many staff members here in the room
    Last edited by Verona_82; 11-Jan-2011 at 00:31.

  4. 5jj's Avatar
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    #7

    Re: too much / far too much

    Quote Originally Posted by Verona_82 View Post
    How can we learn a language if grammars and grammarians themselves cannot reach agreement? (a rheutorical question )
    If everybody agreed, we self-appointed experts would be out of a job.

    I am not normally in favour of the 'take my word for it' approach, but I have to agree with Richard, (wholeheartedly with regard to the sentences in milan's first post): "Just believe me one would never say too much staff, it's just wrong." At least, in BrE.

    I liked Verona's suggestion: There are far too many staff members here in the room.

  5. milan2003_07's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: too much / far too much

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    If everybody agreed, we self-appointed experts would be out of a job.

    I am not normally in favour of the 'take my word for it' approach, but I have to agree with Richard, (wholeheartedly with regard to the sentences in milan's first post): "Just believe me one would never say too much staff, it's just wrong." At least, in BrE.

    I liked Verona's suggestion: There are far too many staff members here in the room.
    OK, but what do you think about those links that I've provided in my message above?

  6. 5jj's Avatar
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    #9

    Re: too much / far too much

    Quote Originally Posted by milan2003_07 View Post
    OK, but what do you think about those links that I've provided in my message above?
    I prefer not to think about them.

    Sorry, it's past my bed time. I'll have a good look at them later.

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    #10

    Re: too much / far too much

    Quote Originally Posted by milan2003_07 View Post
    OK, but what do you think about those links that I've provided in my message above?
    The link took me to a page where there was much mention of 'many staff' but I could see no mention of 'much staff' and nothing to support your suggestion that such a phrase is in use.

    Please clarify your point.

    Rgds

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