[Vocabulary] This kind of a X, this kind of X, Xs of this kind

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AlJapone

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Dear Teachers,

What are the diffrences among these similar expressions:

1. this kind of a X
2. this kind of X
3. Xs of this kind

E.g., colloquial or formal? concrete or abstract?

Any help would be appreciated.

Best wishes,


AlJapone
 

corum

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Dear Teachers,

What are the diffrences among these similar expressions:

1. this kind of a X
2. this kind of X
3. Xs of this kind

E.g., colloquial or formal? concrete or abstract?

Any help would be appreciated.

Best wishes,


AlJapone

Swan 551.2:
kind of a X -- informal
kind of X -- formal, informal
kind of Xs -- informal
kinds of X -- formal, informal
kinds of Xs -- formal, informal
Xs of these kinds :tick:
Xs of this kind :tick:
 

AlJapone

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Swan 551.2:
kind of X -- formal, informal
Thank you for your reply. But I'm not sure what you mean by "formal, imformal." Would you explain on this point?

Best wishes,

Al
 

corum

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used in both registers
 

AlJapone

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5jj

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Swan 551.2:
kind of a X -- informal. kind of X -- formal, informal etc.

Actually, what Swan wrote was:

"When we are talking about one sort of thing, we can use sort of, kind of, or type of followed by a singular noun. [...]

Singular sort of, kind of, and type of can also be followed by plural nouns, especially in an informal style. [...]

Plural demonstratives (these and those) can also be used.[...] . Do you smoke those kind of cigarettes?
This structure is often felt to be incorrect, and is usually avoided in a formal style, This can be done by using a singular noun [...], by using plural sorts/kinds types, or by using the structure ...of this/that sort/kind/type.

This sort of car is... Those kinds of car(s) are... Cars of that type are ..."

Swan, Michael (2005) Practical English Usage, Oxford:OUP
 

AlJapone

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Actually, what Swan wrote was:
[...] Singular sort of, kind of, and type of can also be followed by plural nouns, especially in an informal style. [...]

Plural demonstratives (these and those) can also be used.[...] This structure is often felt to be incorrect, and is usually avoided in a formal style, [...]
Thank you for providing useful information, fivejedjon.

It appears to me that Swan only says that 'this kind of Xs' and 'these kind of Xs' are informal, (both expression are not included in my original post.)

I feel that 'this kind of a X', which is probably colloquial, has a slightly diffrent usage from the other two given in my first post. But I cannot put my finger on what makes me feel like this.
I also feel 'Xs of this kind' could be, in some cases, more suitable to private and personal classifications than 'this kind of' might be; am I imagining a distinction that does not exist?
I would be happy if I could listen to your opinion.

Best wishes,


AlJapone
 

5jj

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Well, for what it's worth, AlJapone, here's my opinion:

A: It appears to me that Swan only says that 'this kind of Xs' and 'these kind of Xs' are informal, (both expression are not included in my original post.)

5: He didn’t say that of the former, and he wrote of the latter that it was used ‘especially in an informal style’, which is not quite the same as saying that it is informal.

A: I feel that 'this kind of a X', which is probably colloquial, has a slightly different usage from the other two given in my first post. But I cannot put my finger on what makes me feel like this.

5: I agree that it is probably colloquial, but I can’t feel any difference.

A: I also feel 'Xs of this kind' could be, in some cases, more suitable to private and personal classifications than 'this kind of' might be; am I imagining a distinction that does not exist?

5: I think you are. Others may disagree.
 

AlJapone

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Dear fivejedjon,

Now I am somehow relieved knowing that I was wrong in terms of my feelings on these expressions. Thank you.
By the way, I am afraid you might misread the second paragraph of my last post. So let me repeat it here.

This kind of Xs
"Singular [...] kind of [...] can also be followed by plural nouns, especially in an informal style. [...]"

These kind of Xs
"[...] these [...] can also be used.[...] This structure is often felt to be incorrect,"

I supposed from these explanations that both were informal or at least occured especially in an informal style.

Best wishes,


AlJapone
 

AlJapone

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Dear fivejedjon,

I had misunderstood the meaning of the word informal. After re-reading your last post, I recognised that I could not have understood what you were talking about the informality of the expressions we discussed.
I sincerely apologise for falsely suggesting that you misread my post.

I have understood you as follows:
Being informal implies the notion of being educated; hence, something often felt to be incorrect cannot be considered informal.
Being informal and being used especially in an informal style are not the same thing.

I apologise to you again.


AlJapone
 

5jj

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I have understood you as follows:
Being informal implies the notion of being educated); hence, something often felt to be incorrect cannot be considered informal.
Being informal and being used especially in an informal style are not the same thing.
No apology necessary. :)

However, there has been another slight misunderstanding.

Being informal does not inply being educated (or uneducated. It simply means that is used in relaxed, friendly atmosphere rather than in official writing or speeches.

Something felt to be incorrect can be considered informal, for example, the expression 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'.

If a usage is described as 'informal' the implication is that it is used only in relaxed speech and writing.. If we say that it is used ‘especially in an informal style’, we imply that it is more commonly used in relaxed situations, but it can also be used in more formal situations.
 

AlJapone

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Hello, fivejedjon,

Thank you for your replay.
No apology necessary. :)
I feel relieved at these kindly words; however, I know that I cannot be too humble when it comes to learning a language, especialy when my poor command of the language would be able to cause misunderstanding anytime.
However, there has been another slight misunderstanding.
It has been three months since I started trying to write in English, and I still cannot speak nor understand spoken English. This lack of experiences gives me a hard time, besides in grammatical matters, which I have also started studying three monthes ago, in dicerning the registers of words and in employing an appropriate diction to express my thoughts. So, to understand the notion of 'being informal', which is absolutely nessessary, I would ask you to bear with me persisting a little further.

Being informal does not inply being educated (or uneducated.
Something felt to be incorrect can be considered informal, for example, the expression 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'.
If a usage is described as 'informal' the implication is that it is used only in relaxed speech and writing.
It appears to me that being informal means that it lacks formality, but is not the same thing with being vulgar notwithstanding its acceptance of some incorrectness in grammer; therefore formal and informal are not dichotomical categories of diction, in other words, they are possibly just two among many others.

Have I come closer to some understanding? I am awaiting your candid comments.

Best wishes,


AlJapone
 
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