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    #1

    Question how do we say?

    we sell all kinds of cloth/all kind of cloth/ all kind of cloths

  1. engee30's Avatar
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    #2

    Post Re: how do we say?

    Quote Originally Posted by timi_julie View Post
    We sell all kinds of cloth. /all kind of cloth / all kind of cloths
    ♥♦♣♠ NOT A TEACHER ♥♦♣♠

    When you use all with kind, kind is always plural.

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    #3

    Re: how do we say?

    If you're thinking of a shop that sells different kinds of cloth for making e.g. clothes or curtains, you would probably be more likely to hear:

    1. We sell all kinds of material.

    Best wishes,

    MrP

    Not a professional ESL teacher.

  2. 5jj's Avatar
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    #4

    Re: how do we say?

    Quote Originally Posted by engee30 View Post
    When you use all with kind, kind is always plural.
    Actually, it can stay singular especially with a non-plural noun:

    He got up to all kind of mischief.

    Indeed, 11 of the 18 citations for 'all kind of' in British National Corpus (BYU-BNC) are followed by plural nouns.

    Some people do consider 'all kind of' to be somehow not correct, but with 459 citations in http://www.americancorpus.org/?q=2901330, it appears to be widely used.

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    #5

    Re: how do we say?

    I would find "all kind of" + a non-plural noun quite strange. It may be worth noting that five or so of the BNC examples are a different kind of "all kind of" (e.g. "it's all kind of a joke"), and that "all kinds of" returns 764 results against those 18. Thus "all kind of" in the sense in question accounts for not more than 2% of the combined results.

    Best wishes,

    MrP

    Not a professional ESL teacher.

  3. 5jj's Avatar
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    #6

    Re: how do we say?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPedantic View Post
    I would find "all kind of" + a non-plural noun quite strange. It may be worth noting that five or so of the BNC examples are a different kind of "all kind of" (e.g. "it's all kind of a joke"), and that "all kinds of" returns 764 results against those 18. Thus "all kind of" in the sense in question accounts for not more than 2% of the combined results.
    I accept this, Mr P, although 2% of 100 million words is not to be sniffed at.

    In my post, I was simply attempting to suggest that it was not helpful to present such statements as:

    When you use all with kind, kind is always plural

    as if they were clearly true.

    They are not.

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    #7

    Re: how do we say?

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    I accept this, Mr P, although 2% of 100 million words is not to be sniffed at.
    Sorry, my post was unclear - I meant that "all kind of" accounts for 2% of the combined results for "all kinds of" and "all kind of", i.e. 2% of 782 items, rather than 2% of the entire database.

    All the best,

    MrP

    Not a professional ESL teacher.

  4. 5jj's Avatar
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    #8

    Re: how do we say?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPedantic View Post
    Sorry, my post was unclear - I meant that "all kind of" accounts for 2% of the combined results for "all kinds of" and "all kind of", i.e. 2% of 782 items, rather than 2% of the entire database.
    You were actually quite clear. I just read your post in a brain-dead moment. Sorry.

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    #9

    Cool Re: how do we say?

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    I accept this, Mr P, although 2% of 100 million words is not to be sniffed at.

    In my post, I was simply attempting to suggest that it was not helpful to present such statements as:

    When you use all with kind, kind is always plural

    as if they were clearly true.

    They are not.
    If I were to split hairs, I'd go like this - the sentence of one of your posts above sounds really strange to my ears.

    As an abstract non-count noun, mischief cannot have any different kinds of it; rather, you could get up to different (kinds of) forms of mischief, but not kinds as such.
    Obviously, there must be a differentiation between nouns within the group of so-called abstract non-count nouns. Let's take music, for instance - the noun falls into the same group, and yet, it's absolutely fine to use all kinds of with music, for we've actually got a few kinds of music: jazz, blues and rock, just to name a few of them.

    So I'll stand up and be counted as the supporter of the words of mine:
    When you use all with kind, kind is always plural.

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    #10

    Re: how do we say?

    Quote Originally Posted by engee30 View Post
    As an abstract non-count noun, mischief cannot have any different kinds of it; rather, you could get up to different (kinds of) forms of mischief, but not kinds as such.
    Of course you can have different kinds of mischief.

    So I'll stand up and be counted as the supporter of the words of mine:
    When you use all with kind, kind is always plural.
    I am pleased to note that you appear to consider yourself the only supporter.

    You can think it incorrect or illogical if you wish, but it is not always plural. There are 459 citations in COCA that show that some people use it.

    It is true that some of these are similar to this one: Then we all kind of smiled. This is rather different, but there are many instances of all kind of followed by singular, plural and uncountable nouns.

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