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    #1

    police vs the police

    "But the crowd was met by a counter rally of pro-government protesters, leading to small scuffles between the two groups until police intervened."


    OR

    "Leading news and information source for the police, law enforcement community."

    I can't get a feeling when to say police and when the police?

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    #2

    Re: police vs the police

    I think you could use the article in the first without changing the meaning much. In the second, it is talking about the police as a force rather than individuals.

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    #3

    Re: police vs the police

    Quote Originally Posted by Tdol View Post
    I think you could use the article in the first without changing the meaning much. In the second, it is talking about the police as a force rather than individuals.
    When we talk about it as a force we use the defenite article. When we refer to it as individuals we may use it without it?

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    #4

    Re: police vs the police

    Quote Originally Posted by ostap77 View Post
    "But the crowd was met by a counter rally of pro-government protesters, leading to small scuffles between the two groups until police intervened."


    OR

    "Leading news and information source for the police, law enforcement community."

    I can't get a feeling when to say police and when the police?

    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Ostap,


    (1) I believe that in your second sentence, the article is necessary

    because the "the" refers to "community." That newspaper/magazine/

    website, etc. is the "leading information source for the community."

    Which community?

    The police and [comma = "and"] law enforcement community.

    I do not think that native speakers would accept:

    It is the leading news website for police, law enforcement community.


    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****

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    #5

    Re: police vs the police

    Quote Originally Posted by ostap77 View Post
    When we talk about it as a force we use the defenite article. When we refer to it as individuals we may use it without it?
    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****


    Ostap,


    (1) According to my research, you are 100% correct.

    (a) Here is what Ms. Marilyn Martin says:

    "When the is used, the noun police is seen as an institution.

    ... [W]hen no article is used, the noun refers to (an unspecified

    number of) actual members of the police force in an actual situation."

    BUT she reminds us that even when we use only "police," it is

    also proper to use "the police" if we want to. If I understand her:

    It is usually correct to say "the police," and that in "modern"

    English, it is also "correct" to say only "police" in certain sentences,

    as explained by Ms. Martin.

    My teachers:

    1. Google "Zero article the police." The second result on the page

    will give you Ms. Martin's excellent article.

    2. The first result on that page is most interesting:

    Contemporary Indian English.

    The scholar who wrote it compared American, British, and Indian

    English use of "police" and "the police." The findings were most

    informative.

    3. Google "The police the definite article"; when the page of results

    appears, click on "more" in the menu on the left side; when it

    appears, click on "books." Pages of book excerpts will appear.

    On page 3, one of the results is Writing for Broadcast Journalists. Mr. Rick

    Thompson tells his readers it is wrong to write "Police in ...." He

    says that it should be "The police in ...." I believe that some people

    feel one reason that "the" started to be dropped was the need for

    newspapers to save space. And then when radio came, maybe news

    readers felt it was more direct and personal to say: "Police are

    looking for ...." instead of "The police are looking for ...."

    4. On page 6 of those book results is an excerpt from a book written

    by Mr. Mortimer Collins -- His Letters. He relates this most insightful

    fact:

    People in my [area] never talk of "the police;" they drop the

    definite article, and seem to personify [my emphasis] their

    natural enemy.

    This book is dated 1877. Mr. Collins was a British writer. I know

    nothing about him. Apparently, he lived in an area where the

    people did not have much love for "police."


    ***** NOT A TEACHER *****
    Last edited by TheParser; 05-Feb-2011 at 19:17.

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