[Grammar] will as a lexical verb

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Kotfor

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I'd like to know about will as a lexical verb. What kind of infinitive do we use with it? Is it a bare infinitive or not?

Example with to

1) A man can achieve what he wills to achieve.

Example without to

2) Does he will it stop growing?

Which one is correct as for the use of infinitive after will?
 

SoothingDave

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Use the "to."
 

SoothingDave

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Keep in mind the verb "will" and the helping verb "will" are not the exact same thing.

"You will eat what I made for dinner." versus "You have the will to achieve."
 

5jj

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1) A man can achieve what he wills to achieve.

2) Does he will it stop growing?

Which one is correct as for the use of infinitive after will?
The first is not the lexical verb 'will'; it is the modal, and the -s ending is incorrect.

We can say only: A man can achieve what he will (achieve).

In the second, we have the lexical verb 'will' meaning 'to use the power of your mind to cause something to happen'. You have used it correctly, assuming that you are speaking, for example, of someone who has caused a cancerous growth to spread no more.
 

5jj

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Keep in mind the verb "will" and the helping verb "will" are not the exact same thing.

"You will eat what I made for dinner." versus "You have the will to achieve."
In your second example, 'will' is a noun.
 

Kotfor

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The first is not the lexical verb 'will'; it is the modal, and the -s ending is incorrect.

We can say only: A man can achieve what he will (achieve).


It is intersting that you see it that way. I have found a few examples backing up "wills to". Let me know how you find them.

1) God is said to be omnipotent only because he can do all things that he wills to do.
2) Whether he wills to smoke or wills not to smoke.
3) A man wills because he wills to will, and he wills to will because he wills to will to will, and so forth; but this is absurd.

I wonder why can't the first example (which you didn't aprove) have WILLS?

In the second, we have the lexical verb 'will' meaning 'to use the power of your mind to cause something to happen'. You have used it correctly, assuming that you are speaking, for example, of someone who has caused a cancerous growth to spread no more.

So shall I use it always with to or is it optional?
 

5jj

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Doh! I'll leave it to you to continue on this subject.
Hey, Dave - if you are going to slip up, at least enjoy the fact that you've done it in style. All I have managed recently is to say, in another thread, that a defining clause was non-defining.
 

5jj

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It is interesting that you see it that way. I have found a few examples backing up "wills to". Let me know how you find them.

1) God is said to be omnipotent only because he can do all things that he wills to do.
2) Whether he wills to smoke or wills not to smoke.
3) A man wills because he wills to will, and he wills to will because he wills to will to will, and so forth; but this is absurd.
Where did you find these examples? They all sound very unnatural to me.
 

Kotfor

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Where did you find these examples? They all sound very unnatural to me.

Here they go.

1) Divine Omniscience and Omnipotence in Medieval Philosophy: Islamic, Jewish and Christian Perspectives and other books by Tamar Rudavsky

2) The Cambridge Companion to Augustine (Cambridge Companions to Philosophy) Eleonore Stump (Editor), Norman Kretzmann (Editor)

3) Free Will and Four English Philosophers: Hobbes, Locke, Hume and Mill Book by Joseph Rickaby; 1906.
 

5jj

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Get thee out, and depart hence; for Herode [sic] will kill thee.

Professor Jespersen says that "nowadays" (he was writing in 1933!!!) people misunderstand that sentence. They think it is a prediction. Actually, the professor explains, that is an excellent example of the full [lexical] verb. The sentence actually means that Herod means to kill.
Jespersen was a fine grammarian to whom all his successors owe a debt of gratitude. However, even the great Otto could make a slip, and he did here. He is right in saying that it's not prediction, but 'will' here is the modal auxiliary with the meaning of 'means, intends'.
 

5jj

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1) Divine Omniscience and Omnipotence in Medieval Philosophy: Islamic, Jewish and Christian Perspectives and other books by Tamar Rudavsky
2) The Cambridge Companion to Augustine (Cambridge Companions to Philosophy) Eleonore Stump (Editor), Norman Kretzmann (Editor)
3) Free Will and Four English Philosophers: Hobbes, Locke, Hume and Mill Book by Joseph Rickaby; 1906.
Right. I thought your examples might have come from sources such as these, which are not good examples of natural modern English. If you delve into older books on philosophy and religion, you can find all sorts of things that would sound strange in normal life.
 

TheParser

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Jespersen was a fine grammarian to whom all his successors owe a debt of gratitude. However, even the great Otto could make a slip, and he did here. He is right in saying that it's not prediction, but 'will' here is the modal auxiliary with the meaning of 'means, intends'.


***** NOT A TEACHER *****


Teacher Fivejedon,

(1) I am horrified that I have misunderstood. I am now

going to quote the full paragraph. First, the necessary credit:

Otto Jespersen, Essentials of English Grammar (University, Alabama:

University of Alabama Press, 1964), p. 272. [Reprint of a 1933 book.]

It is a natural consequence of the notion of volition that it generally
has reference to what is to happen in the future; hence the auxiliary will comes to be used extensively to express first a volition-coloured
future and finally a future time without such colouring. In the course of time the meaning of the verb has become weakened, and to express real volition we must now generally use other verbs: mean, intend, want, choose. Where the Authorized Version has: Get thee out, and depart hence; for Herode will kill thee -- most people will nowadays misunderstand it as a prediction, but the meaning is "means to kill."

I interpreted that as meaning that "will kill" is an example of the full verb

that is no longer recognized as such. For example, on page 271, he gives

this quote from Shakespeare as a full [lexical] verb:

Seeing that death, a necessary end, Will come when it will come.

I just recently learned that you have your own grammar website. Your

credentials are very impressive. So I must have misunderstood the great

professor. I most humbly and abjectly apologize. I shall delete my

original post immediately.
 

5jj

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Parser

1. Don't be so so upset! We all make mistakes. With your UsingEnglish record of hundreds of extremely helpful, and accurate, posts, you can be forgiven one small slip.

2. It's a pity that you removed your post. Discussion of mistakes can be useful for others.

...on page 271, he gives this quote from Shakespeare as a full [lexical] verb:

Seeing that death, a necessary end, Will come when it will come.
No. In paragraph 25.1.1 he writes about the full verb; from paragraph 25.1.2 onwards, he is discussing the auxiliary - your quotation comes from paragraph 25.2.1

I just recently learned that you have your own grammar website. Your credentials are very impressive.
Any Tom, Dick or Harry can set up his own website; that does not make them, or me, infallible. I don't think I am being either falsely flattering or insincerely modest when I say that I am pretty sure that most learners get more helpful, practical advice from your posts than they would from my website.
 
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TheParser

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Parser

1. Don't be so so upset! We all make mistakes. With your UsingEnglish record of hundreds of extremely helpful, and accurate, posts, you can be forgiven one small slip.

2. It's a pity that you removed your post. Discussion of mistakes can be useful for others.

No. in paragraph 25.1.1 he writes about the full verb; from paragraph 25.1.2 onwards, he is discussing the auxiliary - your quotation comes from paragraph 25.2.1

Any Tom, Dick or Harry can set up his own website; that does not make them, or me, infallible. I don't think I am being either falsely flattering or insincerely modest when I say that I am pretty sure that most learners get more helpful, practical advice from your posts than they would from my website.

***** NOT (Obviously!!!) A TEACHER *****


Fivejedjon,

(1) I need your guidance in learning how to read better, too.

(2) In 25.2.1, he writes:

The verb will primarily denotes will, volition. As will is popularly

ascribed to lifeless things as well as to living things, we have, e.g.

Murder will out.

Seeing that death, a necessary end, Will come when it will come (Sh.).

(1) I thought that when he writes "the verb will," he was referring to the

full verb.

(2) I thought that "Murder will out" was an example of the full verb.

Thank you again for all your help.
 

Allen165

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Parser

1. Don't be so so upset! We all make mistakes. With your UsingEnglish record of hundreds of extremely helpful, and accurate, posts, you can be forgiven one small slip.

2. It's a pity that you removed your post. Discussion of mistakes can be useful for others.

No. in paragraph 25.1.1 he writes about the full verb; from paragraph 25.1.2 onwards, he is discussing the auxiliary - your quotation comes from paragraph 25.2.1

Any Tom, Dick or Harry can set up his own website; that does not make them, or me, infallible. I don't think I am being either falsely flattering or insincerely modest when I say that I am pretty sure that most learners get more helpful, practical advice from your posts than they would from my website.

Could you give me the link to your website? I'd like to check it out.
 

5jj

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In 'murder will out', meaning 'murder will become public (knowledge)' will is, once again, a modal auxiliary. In modern English, it is very rare to use a modal + full verb combination without actually using the full verb in this way, but you will occasionally hear, "I must away".

A simple test is the third person -s ending. If it's there, it's a full verb, as in: He's a faith healer - he wills people well.

If there is no -s ending, it's a modal: Death will come when it will come.

This is not an infallible test if you are one of those who still use the present subjunctive, in which full verbs do not end in-s in the third person singular. Here is an example, using will=bequeath: I recommend that he will half of his estate to to his surviving sons, and half....

The full verb uses DO for questions and negatives, the modal does not:

Murder will not out.
[STRIKE]Murder don't will out[/STRIKE]. - Modal
Death will not come.
[STRIKE]Death don't will come[/STRIKE].- Modal
[STRIKE]He wills not people well[/STRIKE]. He doesn't will people well. - Full verb


 
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5jj

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Here's another solace for you, Parser. Someone recently spotted that on my website, (created by someone with' impressive credentials'!) , I wrote "He worked [...] in in England, Germany and Turkey between for nine years, and then settled down in England...":oops:.
 
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