Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China

    • Join Date: May 2008
    • Posts: 468
    #1

    Allan Poe or Poe?

    Dear teachers,
    This afternoon I read in an academic paper on Latino Studies this paragraph beginning with " Daniel Cooper Alarcon(1997) calls the legend of Aztlan, '[p]erhaps the most enduring legacy of the Chicano movement''(10). Cooper Alarcon asserts that...." When I came to "Cooper Alarcon" at the begining of the second sentence of the quote, this "middle name plus the last name" reminded me of something my doctoral class teacher told me and my classmates last semester. He said that we cannot say "Allan Poe" for "Edgar Allan Poe" and that only the full name "Edgar Allan Poe" or simply the last name"Poe" are allowed. Now the above quote got me confused again. You see, in the quote, the author of the paper Dr. Brenda Watts, Assistant Professor of Spanish at Southwest Missouri State University in Springfield, Missouri, uses "Cooper Alarcon" for the full name of "Daniel Cooper Alarcon" when she mentions the quoted author's name for the second time in the second sentence of this paragraph. I cannot find out whether this professor has made a mistake or my professor is wrong in his assertion. Edgar Allan Poe or Allan Poe or Poe--that is the question, but not for a native speaker of English or a nonnative whose English is better than mine.
    Thanks.
    Richard

  1. bhaisahab's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Ireland

    • Join Date: Apr 2008
    • Posts: 25,609
    #2

    Re: Allan Poe or Poe?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohmyrichard View Post
    Dear teachers,
    This afternoon I read in an academic paper on Latino Studies this paragraph beginning with " Daniel Cooper Alarcon(1997) calls the legend of Aztlan, '[p]erhaps the most enduring legacy of the Chicano movement''(10). Cooper Alarcon asserts that...." When I came to "Cooper Alarcon" at the begining of the second sentence of the quote, this "middle name plus the last name" reminded me of something my doctoral class teacher told me and my classmates last semester. He said that we cannot say "Allan Poe" for "Edgar Allan Poe" and that only the full name "Edgar Allan Poe" or simply the last name"Poe" are allowed. Now the above quote got me confused again. You see, in the quote, the author of the paper Dr. Brenda Watts, Assistant Professor of Spanish at Southwest Missouri State University in Springfield, Missouri, uses "Cooper Alarcon" for the full name of "Daniel Cooper Alarcon" when she mentions the quoted author's name for the second time in the second sentence of this paragraph. I cannot find out whether this professor has made a mistake or my professor is wrong in his assertion. Edgar Allan Poe or Allan Poe or Poe--that is the question, but not for a native speaker of English or a nonnative whose English is better than mine.
    Thanks.
    Richard
    Edgar Allan were the first names of Poe, Poe was his family name. Daniel is the first name of Cooper Alarcon and Cooper Alarcon is the family name. So, (Mr) Poe and (Mr) Cooper Alarcon.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Feb 2011
    • Posts: 434
    #3

    Re: Allan Poe or Poe?

    I am not a teacher.

    In Spain and in the Spanish-speaking countries of the Americas, the surnames of both the mother and father are applied to the children. They in effect have two last names. Maria Ruiz and Carlos Gonzales would have children with the last name Ruiz Gonzales or Gonzales Ruiz. Normally, they pick one or the other and use that, but sometimes they use both all the time.

    Allan was the last name of Poe's adoptive family, who gave the name to him as a middle name. Often, a middle name is the mother's family name, but it is just a middle name and not part of the last name as it is in Spain. English-speakers usually do not use their middle name at all, except perhaps as an initial and in monograms.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China

    • Join Date: May 2008
    • Posts: 468
    #4

    Re: Allan Poe or Poe?

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaisahab View Post
    Edgar Allan were the first names of Poe, Poe was his family name. Daniel is the first name of Cooper Alarcon and Cooper Alarcon is the family name. So, (Mr) Poe and (Mr) Cooper Alarcon.
    Thanks a lot, bhaisahab.
    Richard

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China

    • Join Date: May 2008
    • Posts: 468
    #5

    Re: Allan Poe or Poe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolfootluke View Post
    I am not a teacher.

    In Spain and in the Spanish-speaking countries of the Americas, the surnames of both the mother and father are applied to the children. They in effect have two last names. Maria Ruiz and Carlos Gonzales would have children with the last name Ruiz Gonzales or Gonzales Ruiz. Normally, they pick one or the other and use that, but sometimes they use both all the time.

    Allan was the last name of Poe's adoptive family, who gave the name to him as a middle name. Often, a middle name is the mother's family name, but it is just a middle name and not part of the last name as it is in Spain. English-speakers usually do not use their middle name at all, except perhaps as an initial and in monograms.
    You gave me something great! Thanks a lot. Actually I have recently been reading Mexican American scholar Gloria E. Anzaldua's Borderlands: La Frontera/ The New Mestiza (I can only get its 1987 edition but the latest third edition already came out in 2007)and academic papers and books on her new mestiza consciousness. As I do not read Spanish, reading this book of multilingualism and multigenre is giving a hard time.
    Thanks for your enlightening explanation.
    Richard

  2. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,134
    #6

    Re: Allan Poe or Poe?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolfootluke View Post
    English-speakers usually do not use their middle name at all, except perhaps as an initial and in monograms.
    Coolfootluke is correct, though there are exceptions. Edgar Allan Poe is one; James Fenimore Cooper is another who springs to mind.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China

    • Join Date: May 2008
    • Posts: 468
    #7

    Re: Allan Poe or Poe?

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    Coolfootluke is correct, though there are exceptions. Edgar Allan Poe is one; James Fenimore Cooper is another who springs to mind.
    Sorry, I still do not quite understand your meaning. Would you please explain it a little bit? By the way, James Fenimore Cooper is one of my favorite authors though there is always a not too small portion of French snetences in his books, which I have no way to comprehend.

  3. 5jj's Avatar
    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • British English
      • Home Country:
      • England
      • Current Location:
      • Czech Republic

    • Join Date: Oct 2010
    • Posts: 28,134
    #8

    Re: Allan Poe or Poe?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohmyrichard View Post
    Sorry, I still do not quite understand your meaning. Would you please explain it a little bit?
    Coolfootluke said, correctly, "English-speakers usually do not use their middle name at all, except perhaps as an initial and in monograms." Thus the American poet Robert Frost was rarely known as 'Robert Lee Frost' - his middle name was not used.

    However, for some reason, the middle name of certain well-known people is used - I gave Poe as Cooper as examples.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • Chinese
      • Home Country:
      • China
      • Current Location:
      • China

    • Join Date: May 2008
    • Posts: 468
    #9

    Re: Allan Poe or Poe?

    Quote Originally Posted by fivejedjon View Post
    Coolfootluke said, correctly, "English-speakers usually do not use their middle name at all, except perhaps as an initial and in monograms." Thus the American poet Robert Frost was rarely known as 'Robert Lee Frost' - his middle name was not used.

    However, for some reason, the middle name of certain well-known people is used - I gave Poe as Cooper as examples.
    If there is a salient reason for some well-known people's middle names being used, what is it? It may be something difficult to figure out;if so, then please neglect this follow-up question.
    Thank you very much.

    • Member Info
      • Native Language:
      • American English
      • Home Country:
      • United States
      • Current Location:
      • United States

    • Join Date: Feb 2011
    • Posts: 434
    #10

    Re: Allan Poe or Poe?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohmyrichard View Post
    If there is a salient reason for some well-known people's middle names being used, what is it? It may be something difficult to figure out;if so, then please neglect this follow-up question.
    Thank you very much.
    I am not a teacher.

    Various reasons, I guess. It's not a universal cultural thing. Some people are proud of their middle name, sometimes because it is part of a famous name. We have George Washington Carver and John Wayne Gacy, to name two (who couldn't be more different otherwise). There seems to be a tendency to use middle names in the American South---Jerry Lee Lewis, Billy Bob Thornton---though those start to look like double-barreled first names after a while. Sometimes the mother's maiden name carries a cachet---Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley. Sometimes it just sounds good---James Earl Jones. Pity me---I have a first initial, like T. Boone Pickens.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. [General] The Cask of Amontillado by Edgar Allan Poe
    By AliSaeed in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-Jun-2009, 02:16
  2. The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe
    By thedaffodils in forum Literature
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 13-Oct-2008, 20:13
  3. Edgar Allan Poe...please
    By Psiche in forum Ask a Teacher
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 13-Jul-2007, 22:21
  4. the man of the crow, by Edgar Allan Poe
    By JuanCarlos in forum Literature
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-May-2007, 03:04
  5. Edgar Allan Poe
    By Lenka in forum Literature
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 28-Aug-2004, 15:36

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •